May 20, 2008

A second shot at girliness

Just a quick note that over the next couple weeks, the posting here will shift away from cataloguing the appeal of young girls from a hedonist's point-of-view, and toward a cool-headed way of figuring out how females can prolong the half-life of their youthful charms, beyond things that should be obvious (like staying in shape).

In a time of evaporating levels of girliness, as man-women overrun the world, we cannot stand idly by, pursuing selfish and escapist solutions, like hanging out at a dance club for teenagers when you're 27. No: altruistic logic compels us to conserve this precious natural resource for the beautiful children of tomorrow, and the day after tomorrow.

I've also got some hard data to analyze, something I haven't done here in awhile -- I just don't know how I'd manage to go on if I lost my internet cred as a number-cruncher. Suicide is always an option.


  1. I dunno man. I just don't get being more attracted to teenagers than to 27-year-old women. I find the average 27-year-old more attractive all around than the average 18-year-old. The decline in physical firmness/sexiness is more than offset by the decline in girliness, which I find pretty irritating.

    I don't think we need adult women acting more like teens - that would make them less attractive.

  2. You either haven't been around college freshmen in ages, could not get them now and are rationalizing, or prefer easier sex and manlier personalities over a bit more tough-to-get sex from better-looking and more refreshing, feminine girls.

    Female readers -- ignore the comments of the girl-haters.

  3. I ain't the above guy, but I agree with him, and I *have* been around college freshmen. I graded about 200 of their tests and taught some of their classes each semester until recently. Hell, I've casually dated my share of them (though not ones in my classes). Some may look good, but I find their personalities flakey, self-centered and shallow. Some even attempted to use their looks on me to influence grades, which put me off them even more. By your estimation, my extremely high scores for Conscienciousness probably explain that more than anything else. In my estimation, it's a bit more complicated than that, but that's neither here nor there.

    You've got your tastes man, I don't begrudge them to you. If hanging with young impressionable chicks is your bag, then by all means, go to it. I don't deny their physical hotness. Hell, I've been so overwhelmed by *that* aspect, I've dated against my better judgement and regretted it.

    Also Mature /= Manly, unless you think gals like Greta Garbo and Bette Davis are androgyns. I want a worldly woman, not some girl who acts like a man. There's a big diff between the "liberated" woman and the whole feminine fatale that used to be a much more common trope until the 1960s.

    For some of us, we got different tastes and it's not so hard to concieve that, right? So why make it seem like we're fucked up for our tastes? Far as I can see, it's not unethical, nor some sort of perversion like hitting on ten year olds, and we're not all that damn rare. Hell, the stats show that most guys marry girls only slightly younger than them statistically speaking. Maybe for some it's settling, but hey for some of us its a choice and a legit one at that. So what's the thing about making us seem like degenerates and your tastes a form of moral law obligated by evolutionary design? By evo-devo standards, you may be right that man is programmed to seek out young mates (I'm a bit dubious about the young acting part, however, would the average man prefer to bone a girly 5, or a world weary 9 of the same age, all things the same considered?), but man is also programmed to have rape as a viable reproductive option. It certainly doesn't obligate we forcibly take any attractive woman we meet walking through the park late at night.

    It's taste, man. Your "refreshing" is annoying exuberance to some of us. My "worldliness" is a form of hideous cynicism to you. By all means, keep looking into the subject, but I think you're injecting a bit too much of your own tastes into the equation as some form of an objective baseline standard, which is quite unfortunate, because as you say there is a dearth of information on the subject.

  4. Look, most men complain that women past a certain age have lost their youthful charm, wish they were younger-seeming. I'm going to outline ways to make them younger-seeming.

    It's impossible to become a college coed again, so the outcome will not be older women who pass for college kids. They will just seem younger than they are.

  5. That's the thing, man. I don't doubt that statistics show that men prefer younger looking women. Hell, it's both anecdotal, and shown by the data. It's something that's widely known in just about every culture in the world. When you take that as a given, it's pretty much an "Okay, so what's the wrinkle on the subject you got going there and do you have the data to prove (or disprove) it, and does the data I know or general reality confirm the correctness of that conclusion."

    What somewhat disturbs me is that you say things like "Most men complain women past a certain age have lost their youthful charm" as if it were something both proven by general anecdotal experience (i.e. large scale cultural tropes) and research as the equivalent of "men really really like hot young chicks". As far I can tell, it's neither. Young acting seems to have no bearing in the equation. That's why I gave the example of the typical girly 5 versus the world weary 9 of the same age. If the "young acting" had such a value added to it, it would bear out that attitude would skew the results for men, so that the girly 5 would recieve relatively more attention despite the presence of a knockout chick at the other end of the bar. However we all know that a hot chick with a downright nasty hostile attitude (as opposed to girly or worldly in this case) will recieve more attention from guys no matter what (short of doing things like throwing drinks in faces or kicking guys in the nards).

    Sure it's a common trope within the PUA community that a certain personality is the holy grail in womanhood, I've read it enough to see that folks doing that thing really focus on the young acting, but that's like saying that Mormon conceptions of Christianity offer a good model of what to build a sociological understanding of Christianity to be. The PUA community is a subcultural outlier with an appeal to those who seek to affiliate with it, no matter what it says about the vast majority of men being "frustrated betas" seeking the key to women's hearts (or the key to between their legs, whatever comes first). I'm not a "natural", but it seems I've always been able to have my share of experiences with women since my undergrad years. Not enough to make a full "88 Lines about 44 Women", but certainly not a "frustrated beta" by any means. Hell, in fact I've pretty much reached the state where I just want a long term relationship now, if not a full settling down (yet, I'd like to do the Europe thing first).

    Sure I've read a couple of the books, and yeah, they've helped me hone my skills a bit, but within there seems to be a lot of dross, in particular with the community built around it. Certain values that are conflated with evo-devo points when they are dubious at best. Your inquiries and your research would be so much better if you scaled it back a bit and took more care not to conflate your own personal tastes with known givens, as I've given one example of above. Alot of the critique you've gotten on your recent gnxp post seems to revolve around that factor as well.

    Of course if you have pointers to multiple studies that state explicitly and unambiguously that a statistically significant majority of men prefer younger acting women (as opposed to just physically younger looking women, two unrelated factors), then I will gladly and gracefully recant what I say on that point.


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