As much as we may have gone against our parents' wishes or even explicit instructions back in the good old days, we never dared to disrespect them to their face -- let alone call them a swear word. Well, teenagers did seem more defiant back then, but definitely not toddlers or children who weren't big enough to hit back.
Since it never happened, I'm not really sure what our punishment would've been -- ax to the head, maybe? Impalement out in the front yard as a lesson to the other neighborhood brats? I don't know, and I'm glad I never found out.
Yet today it's quite common to hear 3-to-7 year-olds shouting commands and insults right in their parents' face, in public. Whether outside the nearby daycare center, inside Starbucks, or around the supermarket, I can't count the number of times I've heard some little squirt scream "Stupid!" "You give me that RIGHT NOW!" "STOP! You stop being a bad mommy!" One more taboo that has disappeared in my own lifetime...
Still, that's nothing compared to what you'll hear when they're around their family in a private space, where they know strangers won't shoot them a nasty glare, where they know their blood relatives will tolerate way more shit than the general public would.
So far I've heard "asshole!" and "little bitch!" from my nearly 5 year-old nephew when he gets angry during playtime. Well, your parents may not automatically spank you for cursing right to their face, but when you're playing with Uncle Agnostic, homey don't play dat. WHOMP!
I've had to give him three hard spankings so far, but if that only happens once or twice a year, he'll just write it off as the occasional cost of having to visit family. I doubt even a steady stream of spankings from his parents alone would correct him. It's the punishment they get from the outside world that sets them straight. If the other kids on the playground shirk their duty of beating up on the bratty kids, if the grown-ups refrain from walking over to pinch a little shit's ear in public, then children learn that it's OK to fuck around with other people.
I've tried to drive that point home by, perhaps hopelessly, trying to reason with my nephew -- that no one likes to be called bad names, so if he calls those big boys over there a swear word, they won't be like Uncle Agnostic, and they'll punch him in the face, beat him up, and never want to play with him again.
It's no wonder the Millennials continue to act so retarded and disrespectful well past their college years. Socialization grows out of socializing. A generation of micro-managed drones content in the snugness of their cocoons cannot turn out other than dismissive or mousy as adolescents and adults.
So pitch in everyone, and paddle a preschooler today. Let's all help to keep our community clean.
Heh, last weekend my family was out enjoying a fire in the fire pit, and the 4-year-old nephew was throwing snowballs around. Eventually I told him that that was enough and it was time to settle down now, but he kept at it. Eventually I told him, calmly, that if he threw one more he was getting a swat on the butt, and he went ahead and did it, and got his promised reward (I didn't shout at him or get angry, but I wanted to do my bit to teach him the connection between actions and consequences). My brother (his dad) made some comment about he was just 4 1/2 and was too young to understand punishments, which seems odd to me since I'm pretty sure a puppy knows what a punishment means and I don't see any puppies speaking in complete sentences or playing complex games.
ReplyDeleteYet today it's quite common to hear 3-to-7 year-olds shouting commands and insults right in their parents' face, in public.
ReplyDeleteI hear the reverse from the loser Gen X parents pretty often.
Not in my household. My kids know the word "stupid" and "hate" but know my mommy-stare well enough to never use them (they are 4 and 2).
ReplyDeleteThe child's first teacher is the parent (and, sadly, the TV). Kids are getting their vocabulary and the manner in which they use these words somewhere, usually mommy and daddy first. If the parents aren't careful to police themselves and they way THEY interact with other people and their kids, then the kids will pick up and execute the same behaviors. Then comes the challenge of disciplining it out of them, and it's too big a task once the behavior is ingrained. Kids who never see their parents express regret over using a bad word, or suffering any judgment for bad behavior, will be impervious to shaming or physical discipline.
Oh, and you cannot use reason and discourse on any child under the age of 11, and probably not on any teenager, period. Younger than 11 they don't understand it, and teenagers just think you're an idiot and that they know more than you, so your reasons have no validity.
"I hear the reverse from the loser Gen X parents pretty often."
ReplyDeleteSee people, if you don't want your child to turn into a virgin internet tough-guy, make sure you beat them regularly.
"My brother (his dad) made some comment about he was just 4 1/2 and was too young to understand punishments"
ReplyDeleteYet old enough to benefit from appeals to empathy -- "How would you feel if....?" It's all part of keeping the kid's self-esteem at 100%.
"The child's first teacher is the parent (and, sadly, the TV)"
ReplyDeleteIt's more what they pick up from other kids. Like if all the neighborhood kids speak English but the parents speak Spanish, the kid picks English as his first language, maybe doesn't even speak in Spanish, although he could understand it.
Same with clothing, hairstyles, hobbies, music -- copy your peers, not your parents.
Based on what I've heard my nephew pick up, and reflecting on what I'd picked up by elementary school, it's not how adults use curse words.
Grown-ups use them more for frustration -- Goddamnit all, what the fuck, how in the hell..., what a load of bullshit, etc.
Children are using curse words as derogatory names aimed at a specific other person -- asshole, little bitch, shithead, etc. They didn't hear mommy call daddy a shithead, or daddy call mommy a little bitch. They must've heard one boy call another boy that in a playground dominance contest.
The non-offensive words they use are also kiddie and from the playground -- mommy doesn't call daddy a stupidhead, and daddy doesn't call a mushroom-brain.
"Younger than 11 they don't understand it, and teenagers just think you're an idiot and that they know more than you, so your reasons have no validity."
ReplyDeleteI think the other thing that appeals to reason do is signal to the kid that they're on your level, like an adult worker and an adult manager.
Once the kid senses that, they just keep pushing back like a lawyer would:
"If you snowboard down the stairs, you'll get hurt."
"NO I WON'T!"
"Yes you will, and I don't want you to get hurt."
"NO I WON'T!"
"..."
"NO I WON'T! NO I WON'T! NO I WON'T!"
Using physical force tells the kid that it's a one-way interaction, since they can't possibly to any damage back. That's also why you can't scream, like NZT said: they can easily go round-for-round in a screaming match.
We owe this state of affairs largely to Dr. Spock and his strictures against spanking. As P.J. O'Rourke remarked, "I know you aren't supposed to spank children. But is it OK to punch them in the face now that they're 30?"
ReplyDeleteInteresting. Especially considering that based on my personal experiences, kids and teens are far more polite than they were in the 1980's.
ReplyDelete"Especially considering that based on my personal experiences, kids and teens are far more polite than they were in the 1980's."
ReplyDeleteThey're more avoidant, not necessarily more polite.
"We owe this state of affairs largely to Dr. Spock and his strictures against spanking."
ReplyDeleteAnother parallel between now and the mid-century, when his book became a smash seller. If you watch movies from the '40s and '50s, you see the parents struggling with themselves over hitting their kids, and almost always pulling back.
They even squabble about it in the dialog, as though that kind of scene would resonate with the audience. The young couple in Naked City bicker about spanking their kid, and decide against it.
The standard image of children they present is a bunch of them playing quietly indoors, not outdoors, or huddled around the TV set.
The more free-wheeling childhood images are actually set back in the Jazz Age, the 1910s through the early '30s. Like the boyhood and teenage scenes from It's a Wonderful Life.
"They're more avoidant, not necessarily more polite."
ReplyDeleteRight, you can never tell what a person is like until you put them to a test. Avoidant people don't have a high everyday level of defiance -- too much emotional investment in a confrontation, when you could just ignore them, hide somewhere else, and stew in your anger.
What happens when they don't get their way? Or when something inconveniences them? That's the test. In those situations, kids are way brattier than they used to be. We really were afraid of getting hit back in the '80s.