April 16, 2016

Filling in the profile of guys who fantasize about being babes: They're boob men

Last summer I began to profile an increasingly common form of sexual identity disorder -- the latent transgender or crypto-tranny. "Latent" because he only fantasizes about being a hot babe, rather than trying to overtly present as one with make-up and drag. Outside of a sexual scenario, this disorder expresses itself as fantasizing that he is a butt-kicking babe. See earlier case studies of the popularity of female bloodsport (women's MMA) and the butt-kicking babe fan service in the new Star Wars movie.

Although it sounds bizarre, the disorder is in fact widespread, hence the need to study the phenomenon and develop a profile. According to the internal statistics of a popular porn site, "lesbian" is both the most searched-for term and the most-viewed category across much of America. Because a guy watching porn is experiencing vicarious pleasure by imagining himself as one of the people on screen, any guy who seeks out lesbian porn gets aroused by fantasizing of himself as a babe who gets it on with another babe, rather than as a guy who gets it on with a babe.

He is not gay -- he is clearly attracted to women -- but he has a profoundly confused gender identity. In the original post, I speculated that he is awkward around girls, because he can't imagine himself as the kind of guy who a girl would willingly sleep with. Rather than accept personal responsibility, he places blame on an entire group that he belongs to -- it's not that he's awkward, it's that he's a guy, and girls simply have too high standards for guys. However, he still believes that all girls are basically sluts and have a fluid sexuality, and would therefore fool around with another girl. Therefore, he imagines himself as one of those girls, who would not trigger the sought-after girl's defenses.

I know, it sounds crazy. But I swear I've heard this kind of reasoning in dorm room bull sessions, on TV / movie character dialog, etc. A certain type of gullible and awkward guy believes that girls begin practicing kissing with other girls at their teenage sleepover parties, so they're all open to making out with each other. See this iconic scene from Cruel Intentions, which not only refers to the wishful thinking urban legend but enacts it for the viewer. To be clear, the target audience is crypto-trannies who are getting off on imagining themselves as the inexperienced geeky girl, who gets seduced by the experienced cute girl. (None of the YouTube comments refer to Selma Blair by name or as the one they're thinking about -- only the Sarah Michelle Gellar character.)

And if they're that socially awkward, perhaps they'd rather not have to interact with another girl at all. At some point, that line from L.A. Story popped into my head, and it all became clear. Steve Martin's character confesses that, "I could never be a woman, 'cause I'd just stay home and play with my breasts all day." That's one I've heard off and on over the years, sometimes with the addendum that he would be looking in the mirror while fondling himself, to get a good view of "his" boobs.

And they usually brought up the topic out of nowhere -- "You ever wonder what it'd be like to be a girl? I mean, like, just for a day?" Actually... no, I'm not that mentally fucked up. It never occurred to me that my whole life there've been these guys who were basically "coming out" as crypto-trannies, admitting that they had given deep thought about what it would be like to be a girl, and that the main reason they'd like to live a day as a girl would be to feel up their own boobs.

The incredulous reader can google around to find many examples of this fantasy being admitted to on the internet, supposedly as one of those innocent things we all think about (uh-huh). Use quotes: "if i were / was" "play with my boobs / tits".

Their focus is strictly on women's sexual nature, not their distinct social or emotional nature. That's typical of overt trannies as well, who have zero interest in what it feels like to be pregnant, to breastfeed infants, or to mind the children, but only what it feels like to have a dick driving up inside their crotch. Truly a feminine mind born in the wrong body.

After trying to make sense of all this, it struck me -- why don't any of these crypto-trannies ever fantasize about having a girl's butt? It's always the boobs that they're focused on. Go ahead and google the same phrases as above, only with "ass / butt / booty" -- no results. No memorable quote from TV or movies comes to mind. And I've never heard anyone talk about how awesome it would be to be a girl for a day, because you could check out your bubble butt while twerking in front of a mirror, smacking your own booty all day long, or whatever the hell else.

Fellow ass men, are you not dying of laughter just thinking about such a ridiculous "fantasy"? Nothing could be any less erotic than imagining a bubble butt on ourselves, even if we magically found ourselves trapped inside a girl's body for a day.

And sure enough, overt trannies are obsessed with getting breast implants, but not about getting female-typical butt implants, or having relatively fattier thighs, or getting hip implants to give them an hourglass figure.

So all crypto-trannies are boob men. How does that relate to the other features of the disorder?

First, it highlights the shared fetishistic mindset of crypto-trannies and boob men. I mean that in the sense of isolating a specific part and fixating on it, rather than taking in a more holistic view where the part is just one element of a gestalt. Ass men see their preferred part, though they also see the hips, the waist, the hourglass figure, the thighs, the belly. The butt is just one salient element of that gestalt. Boob men don't talk about how great the boobs look as part of a greater whole -- the ribcage, waist, collar, neck, shoulders, etc. They're isolating only the boobs themselves.

Second, it suggests a more juvenile or infantile mindset -- boob men are not fetishizing any random part, but the one whose sole function is to nurse infants. In most of the world, for most of human existence, the breasts were not considered a sexual part or taboo, and were not / are not subject to modesty norms (see this earlier post, and a follow-up post on the sex lives of primitives).

Maybe "juvenile" is too strong -- regressive is more like it. The boob man wants to retreat to the comfort of asexual breastfeeding, away from a more sexually mature focus on the nether regions, and the crypto-tranny wants to retreat from the awkward social interactions of adolescence and adulthood, which he feels makes it necessary to fantasize about being a girl in order for another girl to agree to get it on with him.

It's possible that the fetishistic mindset reduces to the regressive mindset, but I'm not clear on the developmental progression of analytical vs. holistic perception. It's my hunch that adults are better at seeing the gestalt, while babies are still learning which pieces fit together into a typical whole (e.g., eyes and mouth being pieces of the gestalt face). If that's wrong, then there are two separate "factors" of the latent transgender disorder.

It seems like the other features reduce to either one of those, though, and mostly to the regressive factor. Being a nerd -- being a man-child. Keeping the fantasies to themselves rather than presenting to the outside world as a girl -- being as socially timid as a child. Lower in testosterone than the overt autogynephile trannies, who are often athletes like Bruce Jenner or helicopter pilots like Bob Tur -- having a more pre-pubescent level of T. Self-centeredness, as revealed by the fantasies about playing with "his" own boobs --  children are more averse to playing with others than are teenagers or adults. Having a poorly formed gender identity to begin with -- obviously more typical of a pre-pubescent child. And so on.

I don't know about you, but I find this crypto-tranny stuff more intellectually fascinating than when I solved the mystery of what male homosexuality is all about, several years ago. (It's stunted psychological and often physical development during the "ewww, girls are yucky" stage -- search the blog for "gay Peter Pan-isms"). That was a problem that was already widely discussed, if cluelessly (e.g., gays are "hyper-masculine" or "feminized").

This new problem is one that nobody had formulated before, and yet we all recognize its many related features once someone gets the ball rolling. Yep, we remember some guy asking, out of nowhere, if we'd ever fantasized about being a girl ("...for a day") and playing with our own boobs all day long, possibly while in front of a mirror. Yep, we knew that guy in college who was obsessed with lesbians making out in movies. Yep, the nerds who love butt-kicking babes are projecting themselves into the character because they take slights against her intensely personally, not as though they were mere white knights defending the honor of m'lady.

If the current direction of popular culture is any sign, there will be even more damning evidence on the way. Just think -- five years ago, I could not have pointed to the popularity of women's MMA, nerds projecting themselves into the Star Wars heroine's place, lesbians being the most popular kind of porn, and even the overt trannies were not the main focus of the sexuality-related culture war (it was still fags and fag marriage).

It's going to be a very interesting and disturbing year.


  1. Could you explain more about the other side of the coin, the guys who have the tranny fetish?

  2. Too weird. But it certainly sounds plausible. I first noticed the popularity of the ass-kicking babe character in the old 'Tomb Raider' films. I think Steve Sailer even wrote about them. Not only are many of our fellow dudes beta-boys, but a lot of them are crypto-trannies. WTF?!

  3. I never "got" lesbian porn; I just couldn't shake the feeling that some dude somewhere was getting gypped out of a good time.

    I saw a stand-up comedian one time ask, "Do you ever wonder if gays get turned on by looking at themselves in the mirror...'cause what they see is a guy?" - funny question but the answer is almost certainly no. Fully formed sexual desire has an object outside of yourself.

  4. Sounds kind of complicated and Freudian, esp. stuff about "regression" to a breastfeeding fixated phase. (and generally complicated psycho-sexual explanations for apparently non-sexual behaviour or more simply explained sexual behaviour - they just like sex and violence combined, like guys who have femdom fantasies). I think if you were really interested in this you'd have to have a group of men who were into this stuff, then start testing them and their history to check. There might be some sex researcher out there you could contact who would take it up as a project.

    From what I can tell of the transgenders though, they do indeed fixate on a whole female emotional / social experience, taking on (or "cosplaying") a pseudo-maternal role when they have had children with women, wanting to be included in female social circles, treated emotionally as women are, etc, and not just totally sex stuff.

    It's a bit of an unsavoury topic, but I think there is a whole bunch of fetish stories and sex comics and whatnot about this fantasy stuff. I think you would find if looking at them they focus on the whole body, because the whole female body is sexy to the fetishists.

  5. Trannies have zero interest in kids, especially the whole pregnancy / breastfeeding / child-rearing part. When have they ever said "I wish I had the mammary glands that could allow me to breastfeed?" Or "I wish I could get a uterus transplant?"

    They're strictly interested in the sex act from the woman's side.

    They also have no interest in "passing" emotionally and socially as women. Every report about them, whether studies or from other women -- especially the TERF kind of feminists -- is that they act just like men, but want to be accepted as though they were women. Just like how they may still have a dick but want to be accepted as a woman.

    1. From your description it sounds like you're talking about the admittedly more common autogynephile type, an often high testosterone yet fetishizing male.

      Admittedly the other type according to Bailey, the ultra-effeminate gay male, have their own problems, desiring to be women socially and in every other way and often have the desire to have children, children that they otherwise could have had if they had remained boys.

      The transgender mafia of course has a vested interest in getting males to want to transition and the psychologists don't want to rock the boat and thus reccomend transitioning instead of dealing with the underlying problems. That problem usually being fetishization, which libertine types never want to proscribe.

  6. I doubt Freud originated the idea that guys who fixate on breasts were returning to a more innocent stage involving breastfeeding.

    Boob men don't simply want to play with the boobs in their hands, they specifically look forward to sucking on the nipple like they're a baby breastfeeding.

  7. "Could you explain more about the other side of the coin, the guys who have the tranny fetish?"

    That I don't understand. Didn't Charlie Sheen escalate to doing trannies? Seems like it's guys who get really addicted to porn, and need to escalate to something weirder and weirder each time to get the same fix.

    Doesn't seem like something that guys start out with, or that is at all common (although maybe we'll have to check and see in 10-20 years...).

    1. You're so perceptive on these topics, do you have any base theories as to what pushes people in that direction, or why it's so compelling? In particular I have read several accounts on reddit that say that while yes it is an extreme end, some of these men end up seeking only tranny porn to the exclusion of straight porn, although they tend not to actualize it in reality by meeting up with, for example, an escort. That they end up having normal straight relationships with women although they cannot jerk it to anything but this sort of porn.

  8. I never liked the so-called butt kicking babes. I always wanted to see them get beaten mercilessly, if not having that character in the film being outright killed. That's the problem with feminism these days, not nearly enough of them get punched in the face.

  9. I'm a leg man: always have been, or at least since I was a kid and the Rockettes were on Sesame Street doing dances teaching us about numbers. They had these outfits where their entire upper body looked like a suit but their legs were exposed and shimmery. I've been one since. I've noticed old movies tended to emphasize legs on women as sexual things---It Happened One Night, 42nd Street, etc.

    Fox News tends to have its chicas in low cut outfits showing off a lot of leg---especially on Red Eye, where one chair is specifically designated "the leg chair" and the only people allowed to sit there are females with nice legs who are showing them off---I think it might be a left/right thing. Most lefty girls don't seem to show off their legs that much, and I've never heard any lefty man comment on a chick's legs.

    Never saw much in the ass, although a nice tight one is cute and smackable. A little bubble is good. The monstrosity's blacks and low-class Hispanics like are disgusting. I was bewildered when Jennifer Lopez made a big deal about her ass when she first broke on the scene, but I suppose she was playing to her audience; her ass wasn't that big, so I guess she was trying to pretend she was "Jenny from the Block."

    Boobs are nice, but large or small, so long as they are proportional they are good. A thin asian chick with no boobs is still hot to me, but a 36-24-36 chick is hot as well.

    I've noticed that the porn in the last few years has really pushed titfucking as part as every scene. It's weird. It reminds me of when anal was pushed. I think it might be playing for a nice audience there.

    1. I'm a leg man who also appreciates a nice ass, nice being round and tight, not as big as possible.

  10. @Billy:

    Tranny-fucking is just for dudes looking for the next exotic high. Usually they are very rabbit-oriented folk who've done some very crazy, edgy things---very mentally diseased, and trying to cover up that mental disease's problems with adrenaline rushes.

    Richard Pryor once admitted/bragged to having a two week fling with a tranny. And Eddie Murphy has been caught multiple times with tranny hookers. And Charlie Sheen's had them as well.

    In general, blacks and Eskimos are more likely to experiment with trannies and gays and such because blacks and Eskimos are so r-selected and so inbred that the sexual high from being so taboo is what sustains them.

  11. I still think the best explanation for MtF tranny weirdness is the dual model originally formulated by Ray Blanchard but later popularized by Northwestern psychologist J. Michael Bailey in his excellent "The Man Who Would Be Queen".

    If you are not familiar with the work, Bailey argues that MtF trannies come in two variants (homosexual and autogynephilic) which are etiologically and phenomenologically distinct. Crypto-trannies who often claim to be lesbians trapped in mens bodies, and who were previously non-feminine males prior to their transition, suffer from a crippling fetish/identity disorder called autogynephilia. They are basically straight men who have fabricated an internalized (and invariably pornified) female persona as part of a sexual fetish. As fetishes often do, the threshold for pleasure escalates (cumming in their wives/daughters panties gets boring), and what eventually happens is that this persona eclipses and then eradicates their original personality and identity.

    Believe it or not, there is actually a wealth of literature out there on this topic, written by eminently credentialed sexologists. Once I read the works of Bailey, Blanchard, and Lawrence (who is an admitted autogynephile and sex researcher), I found that this model of MtF trannydom had extraordinary explanatory power- far more than the ludicrous "ladybrain" or "feminine essence" narratives that are pushed in popular culture.

  12. I tend to be all about the face. But I appreciate a nice ass and set of tits. I have a friend who's into feet. I don't get it.

  13. Bailey et al. are talking about overt trannies -- they openly present as female, they tell others they're female, they try to lobby the public to treat / accept them as female.

    The crypto-trannies appear otherwise normal -- they never present as female, never claim they're female, and never try to be accepted as female.

    And yet in their fantasy lives, a large amount of psychic energy goes into the image of themselves as a hot babe getting it on with another hot babe, or as a hot babe kicking other people's butts -- especially the jock type that they would have a personal grudge against, but which an actual girl wouldn't care about getting revenge against (proving again that they project themselves into the heroine's role).

    Hence "crypto" or "latent".

    Overt trannies are even rarer than fags, whereas the crypto-trannies could be upwards of 10% of the male population of a certain generation (must be worst among Millennials, but I'm X and heard friends or classmates bring up the "play with my boobs if I were a girl" thing in the '90s).

  14. I agree with LBF -- I look at the face first. Intelligence, vivacity, femininity, mystery are my attraction triggers. Then, it's the whole package, my preference being slimmer and with smaller breasts, which look better and perkier naked.

    Ass is part of that when were talking about a tight, shapely college cheerleader ass, not a steatopygous object of ghetto obsession. A girl with too much ass is simply fat to me. One that crudely accentuates is by twerking of ever uttering the word "booty" is sending off baboon mating signals and I am not her audience.


  15. The fact that East Asians were probably the most important in popularizing the BKB theme suggests that the awkard male fantasy theory may have legs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girls_with_guns
    Regarding male preferences in porn, it's interesting that the more "brown" a country it is, the more it prefers ass, I suppose that makes sense b/c well developed bottom fat is more appealing to the hypersexed, procreation-focused mind. http://sploid.gizmodo.com/map-shows-which-body-parts-in-porn-are-the-most-popular-1670641763 North Korea stands out, the Beloved Leader (presumably the only internet user there) is all about phat azz as well as basketball and black culture in general.

  16. I've seen the gizmodo map before. I found it very disconcerting that the US shares the same taste as most of the Third World.

    1. Even twenty years ago, it probably wasn't so. We're going bottoms up fast (pun intended)

  17. "Crypto-tranny". Hahahahahah!

    Supposedly female breasts were selected for after our distant ancestors could walk upright, since the butt was no longer in our line of sight as it is with apes and their swollen asses.

    So could the boobs also be some sort of mechanism to weed out weak men? Being overpowered by the allure of the tits pretty much makes face to face courtship all but impossible, having those all powerful nips staring into their soul.

    To embellish upon the boobs-as-eyes metaphor, they do seem to have a threatening, expectant glare to them. "APPEASE US, beta boy!"
    "Y-y-yes, yes ma'ams!"
    And he never got the bang again.

  18. Boobs had no allure for primitive man:


    So they did not serve as an "eyes up here" test. Primitive man was only interested in the curve of her seat, and did not look twice at a woman's baby-nursers. Because men did not fetishize breasts, women went around topless without having to worry about getting perved on.

  19. In general, it's an error to project 21st-century high school norms back onto the Noble Savage. Primitive man wasn't saturated with pornography, and didn't have a social circle that was all the same age (encouraging "typical teenage" stuff like the boys pressuring each other to lose their virginity the fastest, or girls strutting their stuff to see who can turn the most heads).

    But that hasn't stopped the cottage industry of Evolutionary Psychology from telling us why the behavior of suburban 10th-graders conferred a Darwinian boost to the Noble Savage.

  20. The more "civilized" a people is the more taboo the rest of the body becomes I guess. Then there's also the racial angle: "primitive" peoples tend to have more common steatopygia (think hottentot venus), so they're much more likely to be "ass men"

  21. Have you done a write up on males who have 3somes with another guy and a girl? I always felt it was pretty gay as the guys are committing a sexual act while just using the woman as a masturbatory device

  22. confusedidentity4/19/16, 3:42 PM

    Hello Agnostic,

    I do not usually comment on blogs but this post is too important for me to ignore.

    You are definitely on the right path with this idea. I know because you are describing me. I would like to explain how it feel from the inside and how to get past it. Sorry if any of this explanation sounds funny, I am still working on improving my English.

    When I was going through puberty, I became convinced that women had much more intense sexual experience than men. Kind of the precise reflection of the 1950-decade good girls mentality. I heard that girls could have multiples and that some girls would "do it" with each other. I guess some boys would also do things but that thought had no appeal to me and has none now either.

    Sexual education and citizenship classes in school were very focused on women. Men were considered unimportant to a woman's sexual experience as discussed below. I came to think that women were just "more important" than men. Men were just necessary for sperm, meanwhile women found their true sexual fulfillment through vibrators, cunnilingus, etc. Other women were just as capable as men of sexually fulfilling a woman, with no risk of pregnancy, male violence, recapitulation of abusive patriarchal family structure, etc. In fact there was no obvious reason except for personal taste for women to even deal with men.

    In a typical man, I do not think these statements would have had much of an impact in terms of actual behavior. But in my case, I became obsessed with female sexual pleasure as the "real meaning" of sex. In fact, with my first girlfriends, I was inorgasmic, not quite the typical situation of a vigorous teenage boy! I was much less interested in "using" my girlfriend for fulfillment than other boys my age and I was very indignant that they would do so. They should have been smart like me and concentrated on tongue, massage, atmosphere etc. so that they could be good lovers like an independent adult woman would want.

    This progressed very far. I came to despise masculine sexuality as such and began to admit to myself that I was emotionally identified with women. All this time my career was going very well and I had many achievements to my credit. To tell the truth, I was even quite successful with women because they saw me as masculine and successful but also sensitive. They had no way to know that this sensitivity was false, that it came less from real emotional connection than with what I know recognize was a desire to actually BE them.

    I do not expect that this would ever have progressed to crossdressing (which had no appeal to me) or surgery. And perhaps in a less sexually obsessed society, it simply would have stayed a completely private "kink" that I would never have expressed. But in our society, it has led me to neglect relationships with women and to become obsessed with pornography (mostly written) that supposedly expresses the intense pleasure of the sexually liberated woman. At the same time, I became interested in male sexual humiliation.

    My way out of this state of confusion came from the one close female relationship in my life. She is actually a lesbian but in talking frankly to her about my feelings I became convinced that my idea of femaleness is just wrong. Women do not feel the way I imagined they felt, women do not experience sex or relationships the way I imagined, in fact, most of what I used to think I knew about women is just a castle in the air, an illusion or fever dream. And therefore I know that the way to move forward in my life is not to fixate on women the way I have before. For example, no normal woman would ever be interested in the male humiliation experiences I used to think would fulfill me. And that must mean that they are not really a way to relate to women.

    Thanks for letting me write this all out. I will look at this post to see if anyone answers.

  23. I think it's just that boys are taught in school (and sometimes by single moms: "Men are evil just like your daddy!") that they should be super sensitive and accommodating to strong womyn and their needs. Of course, most boys don't buy this wholesale, and most women (especially in their primes) don't want a nu-male.

  24. A simpler explanation is that "ass men" tend towards closeted homosexuality, and project their deformity onto connoisseurs of other aspects of the female anatomy in an attempt to distract attention from themselves.

  25. ^Lol.

    "Boobs had no allure for primitive man" Completely sweeping generalization, false at that. They were selected for in order to draw the eyes, in the same way chimps' ass swelling does. Breasts are much like the face, in that proportionality and subtle differences like 5 degree differences in angle make a much finer line between good vs just ok. Much moreso than the waist/ass/legs gestalt.

    Breast have an inherently aesthetic quality. Just ask an honest woman, or an art historian. The distinction is in the acquired fixation on them, probably due to being out-alpha'd by other guys before puberty, then later seeing them as an object of desire (something that's being enjoyed by seemingly everyone else, yet kept away from you), in turn causing a vicious, self-fulfilling cycle. Meanwhile those guys that had the early leg up enjoy their "accumulative advantage" all the way to the grave. I digress...

    Your thinking is too polarized, either/or. Alpha's (who mated more) probably weren't as phased by breasts because they weren't viewed as "inaccessible". They got ass, and the tits came with the package deal. Guys who didn't get ass became fixated. After all, guys have asses too, so there's less of a contrast between men/women's hind sides than front sides.

    Anyway, props to confusedidentity. I'm also someone who recognizes autogynephilia within himself. Tits guy since I can remember, but only asses have caused actual (short lived) infatuations irl for me. That girl I walked behind 2 years ago at the baseball game... That girl I used to work with, whose coworker jokingly played "I like big butts" to annoy her... Mmm.

  26. Do you think the rise in overt transsexuals is a result of an increase in what you call "latent transgenders?"

  27. Latent transgenders: "butch dykes trapped in a man's body"

  28. "A simpler explanation is that "ass men" tend towards closeted homosexuality,"

    Mature sexual orientation must seem confusing to those who still fixate on breastfeeding.

    Men and women both have faces, so guys who focus on the face are also closeted homos, and ditto leg men.

    It's the overall feminine gestalt that is attractive, and most of that is due to the shape of their waist, belly, hips, buttocks, and thighs.

    That's why you would find a tranny more arousing than a small-breasted girl with a bubble butt -- your mind is stuck in the infantile stage where body shape doesn't matter, the only thing that distinguishes women is their milkers.

  29. ""primitive" peoples tend to have more common steatopygia (think hottentot venus), so they're much more likely to be "ass men""

    Seems more like a tropical thing (where people are still largely primitive today). Eskimos are fairly primitive, but they don't have "ghetto booty". Neither did the Scandinavians back when they were primitive, compared to the civilized Mediterraneans who were packing more heat in the seat.

  30. "I became obsessed with female sexual pleasure as the "real meaning" of sex."

    That is a common theme in the shifting preferences of today. Guys thinking that the girl's enjoyment is an engineering problem to be solved by knowing the blueprint of the anatomy, applying the right tool at the right angle with the right pressure, etc.

    In real life, it's down to whether they're hot for each other. Could mean deeply in love, but could also mean a fling with "random hot guy" (symmetrical).

    That's a typically male mindset -- everything is an engineering problem -- but being applied in a seemingly feminine role, where he's the one striving to please her physically, with less concern about his own pleasure.

    It's another instance of the uncanny valley with latent and overt transgenders -- trying to present as female (sensitive, attentive) while viewing her arousal as a mechanical engineering project.

  31. Do a lot of these covert trannies find the breasts so overtly sexual because they were NOT breastfed? The rise of autogynephilia correlates somewhat with widespread bottle-feeding and smaller families, so these boys grow up without experiencing or seeing the natural, primary function of the breast. Perhaps they are regressing because they never experienced "proper" infancy and early childhood attachment to their mothers? Cry it out parenting philosophies might create or compound similar mental issues. While people criticize and ridicule the millenial generation for lacking parental discipline (and rightly so) they were also a generation of majority bottle-feeding, crib sleeping, cry it out, and daycare/public schooling. All while being more likely to be only children and thus poorly socialized. No wonder they (we) are rife with sexual and relationship fiascoes. We don't have tons of divorce; we simply dont marry at all.

    To continue close to this topic, there would be a much better understanding of the differences between men and women and father and mother were the simple but profound tradition of normal (that is, extended to 2-4 years) nursing more widespread.

  32. Maybe the crypto-tranny or overt tranny cases weren't breastfed -- interesting idea.

    As for generally being fixated on breasts, though, probably not -- it began in ancient times (not too ancient, though), before bottle feeding.

    Breastfeeding for 2-4 years strikes too many women as bizarre these days. I think even the "don't shame me for breastfeeding in public" crowd would find it creepy to nurse a toddler.

    But it would pay off big-league for the kid's health -- no addiction to refined sugars from birth. I wonder how much of kids' hyperactivity (the real kind) and obesity is due to swigging down gallons of apple-flavored sugar-water every week for the first 5-10 years of life.

  33. Nursing for 4 years would also roll back the onset of puberty, which keeps getting earlier and earlier in industrial societies. Weaning is one of those milestones in development -- push it back, and the other ones go as well.

    Middle school and high school would be a lot less awkward if Americans developed along hunter-gatherer norms, with girls reaching menarche around 17, courting at 18, marrying at 19, and first birth at 20.

    We had first births at age 20 for awhile in the mid-20th C., but we also have early onset of menarche. It puts modern teenagers in that distinctly awkward period of adolescence, since they're sexually maturing nearly one full decade before they're realistically going to give birth.

    H-G's avoid that awkward adolescence, but once they mature, all systems are go. Seems like a better system.

  34. Yes, it is more intellectually fascinating!

    I want to get gossipy for a minute...
    There is a Washington Post writer whose name I don't want to say, but I'm sure you'll figure out who I'm talking about. Per Steve Sailer, he fits the trannie profile: sci-fi kinda guy (yet he doesn't seem *at all* into numbers or that he would even fit in all that well @ Steve or Ron's; though he did interview Unz once about the minimum wage; guy's smart and more creative than most writers.)
    He is very defensive and passionate about trannies, but I can't tell if that's just extreme, naive liberalism or something else.

    So my question: What is he? Just a standard lib, crypto-trannie, or likely future trannie?

    Despite the zeitgeist, I really don't want his name said: being a trannie is shameful and I wouldn't put my worst enemy's name together with those insinuations or thoughts.

    1. Not wanting to restart thread, just preserve for posterity...
      I don't believe writer is any kind of trannie. Just very sensitive and surrounded by liberal group.
      Very smart, could see him changing his tune.

  35. Another facet of the crypto-tranny: hyper-intellectualization, complete with dream-like space cadet daze, forever crunching data to rationalize it to fit their NiceGuy[TM] self-image. If they were more in touch with their desires, they may act in a way they were conditioned to fear repercussion for, so they distance themselves from their own bodily feelings to perform for the validation of others (the basis of narcissism). What begins as a curiosity that would otherwise be allowed to be expressed then probably dissipate, fester and pervert into absurdities, such as "interpreting themselves" as a woman. Similarly, no one who has the opportunity to express healthy, normal sexuality, also "can't get off unless they watch whacked-out fetish porn".

    Perhaps it's this unceasing "presenting" of themselves (presenting, as in to be taken* advantage of (read: fucked over by amoral opportunists)) to score brownie points and avoid discomfort that drives the constant self-monitoring to maintain their "pure" image, and keep any questionable desires from making it to consciousness. They don't even fantasize overtly, it's more like they've reverse-polarized into a feminine counterpart to their atrophying masculinity. They're trying to possess/exert control over what they desire, as Patrice O'Neal put it here, 21m48s in: https://youtu.be/PhsIZX0pdGE
    *note the parallel between the feminine "being taken fantasy"

    After reading about codependency and narcissism in PUA's via Ricky Raw, I came across this gem, which speaks of a similar Peter Pan type. Begin from "While delivering Multi-Systemic Therapy"...

  36. Seconds later in the Patrice video, he talks about the fascination over pimps, and how they "control something that's controlled by an unlikable creature". This mirrors what I posted earlier (as Anonymous) about breast-fixation stemming from being kept out of the "secret society", the cool kids club. The breast is more defining of the female form than the ass-gestalt, especially to men who can only watch and not partake, and makes for easy & obvious fantasy fodder.

  37. After reading through a number of transwidow's stories, I've been wondering if the autogynephile that's been long married as a man is basically our era's version of a man going through a "midlife crisis" (a subject Agnostic has touched on before). Surely, it's far more rare, but there seem to be a lot of similarities. The wives in these situations seem to have lost every bit of sexual appeal to their husbands: never any talk about the husbands begging for sex, pouting over sex withheld, nothing. Narcissism and delusion seem to be the the most defining features which aren't present nearly the same in the guy-trading-in-the-4-door-for-a-sportscar. Finally, the man ends up leaving, alienating, or withdrawing from his family for a new life.

    I went to do more reading about narcissism and autogynephilia and found this gem:

    "Do you think that autogynephilia can be cured? My soon-to-be ex-husband claimed that his affair with a younger woman "cured" his sexual fetish. Apparently he had been seriously considering gender reassignment surgery before starting this affair (the affair is the reason we are getting divorced). I'm trying to figure out who this person I married is."

    I guess the point of my comment is this: It all does make me wonder if the impulse to seek out women/younger women is being channeled, in a direction, across the board, in the spirit of our zeitgeist.
    Also, all the under-35 straight men speaking with higher voices.

  38. Dahlia, midlife crises brings to mind yet another piece of the puzzle: Manic Pixie Dream Girls (often mentioned in conjunction with the "quarter-life crisis"). Another offshoot of the male yearning for elusive femininity is this toned down version of Butt Kicking Babe. The fanboy types who long to be "taken"* away by her more confident hand wish to be perceived by others as they perceive her: clever, desirable, capricious (fun to be around), attracts tag-along followers, eccentric, possessing Good Taste [TM], etc. A "Butt Kickin Babe" just for guys conditioned to reject violence indiscriminately.
    *again with the reversion to the passive feminine role

    Same goes for the bumblefuck-husband/savvy-wife shows, which is truly sexist when you consider that the humor angle is intended to be amplified by this implied "role reversal": they're each stereotypes of the opposite gender. The men: helpless and insecure without her seemingly omniscient guidance. The women: wise and surefooted, the unsung hero who saves the day in spite of the nutless wonder practically TRYING to ruin the day, every day.

    Makes you wonder if there are other subtler stereotypes. How about Angela Chase, Lindsay Weir, Daria, etc? All male-like characters in their contemplative introspection and outwitting of men (read: jocks), impossibly pretty (read: desired) without even the normal social pressures to be constantly fretting over their looks (again, like men with women's bodies).

    Seems like these female characters are used to edge at male aspirations, without seeming overtly banal by casting an actual male. So men edge at possessing her qualities (function) by adopting the form, unconsciously.

  39. The butt-kicking babe is someone who the crypto-tranny imagines himself as. She's not really rescuing the character who the male viewer identifies with -- she is the one he identifies with himself. He imagines himself as a hero, saving people, accomplishing things, only as a babe.

    The manic pixie dream girl is not someone who the male viewer imagines himself as, though. The guy wishes that some girl would come to his aid, and here she comes. He doesn't imagine himself as that kind of girl because she's very girly personality-wise, and the crypto-tranny doesn't imagine himself as hyper-feminine, but more in the butt-kicking babe direction.

  40. I'd never heard that term before:


    Hardly any examples from the '70s, '80s, and early '90s. Men in outgoing times are less brooding and depressed because they're more socially engaged, so they don't care for a cheap wish fulfillment character like that. They aren't so socially awkward that meeting and relating with a real person is the end of the world.

    About the only example I can think of is Daryl Hannah's character from Splash! Then there was Lisa from Weird Science, but she's more of a black-humor subversion of the type.

    And then you had one new wave hit after another where the girl is complaining about some brooding buttoned-up guy who she had a crush on, but making fun of him instead of playing the "Prozac girlfriend" role.

    "Johnny Are You Queer?"

    "He's So Unusual"

    "He's So Dull"


  41. "He's So Dull" by Vanity 6 (1982):


    In outgoing times, girls mercilessly mock the brooding, sensitive shut-in with no life. Hard to believe from the vantage point of our cocooning climate, where nobody bothers to shame them anymore.

    "The '80s were a weird time..." -- a couple of Millennial guys watching the old Incredible Hulk show on the wall-o'-TVs at the thrift store yesterday.

    I should've told them that the '80s were normal, it's 2016 that's weird.

  42. About autogynephile trannies and having a fling with a younger woman -- it is strange how their image, and their name, is a lot younger than their real age. Bruce Jenner goes by "Caitlyn," which is a Millennial name, not a Boomer name.

    He doesn't LARP as a 70 year-old woman, but as a 20 year-old girl. But being middle-aged and elderly, these freaks only worsen the uncanny valley effect -- gender AND age are outta whack.

    I wonder if we'll ever hear about Bruce Jenner creepily hitting on his daughters or their friends. It sure seems like adopting the Millenial female persona is the first step toward sneaking into the younger babes' social and physical space, perhaps where he plans to go full-on pseudo-lesbo-tranny (a man in drag trying to get it on with a real woman).

  43. "I wonder if we'll ever hear about Bruce Jenner creepily hitting on his daughters or their friends. It sure seems like adopting the Millenial female persona is the first step toward sneaking into the younger babes' social and physical space, perhaps where he plans to go full-on pseudo-lesbo-tranny (a man in drag trying to get it on with a real woman)"

    Not any time soon. There is actually a talking point I heard being repeated by Chris Wallace, a conservative: No men have been (prosecuted? found? arrested?) for using tranny laws to harm women.
    AND no left-wing or right-wing groups have found this...

    Oh, son! Just visit the radical feminist lesbian sites who've been documenting these. Of course, being just lesbian women, their findings and research are completely disorganized, but they're there. It was thanks to them that a convicted rapist-turned tranny and bathroom advocate was found out. The Chris Wallaces and the others are doing 0 searching or digging.

    To your original remembrance of how young they try to pass off, I remember your post discussing that though had forgotten. I am convinced that the bathroom/shower or private places movement is mostly about sex with far, far more numerous useful idiot allies taking liberalism further to its ultimate conclusion of radical autonomy per Lawrence Auster.
    It doesn't seem to be the lady-boys into guys behind this, does it? Who actually have more to be afraid of with them being smaller and less aggressive than the "lesbians"?

  44. That all being said, I do believe there is a sexual fetish involved, that they're autogynephiles, and they will mostly seek out lesbians in order to have their cake and eat it, too.
    But they're so sick in the head, some more than most, that I don't put anything past them and do not trust them: they're up to no good.

  45. confusedidentity touched on something else that I'd like to elaborate. His utter submission to the will of the feminine smacks of the "Goddess"-worshiping culture that is thrust upon us. This a priori defining of women as Goddesses in mens' eyes makes the only possible relationship he can have with one is that of codependency. It's not a separate-but-equal complementary one, but a polarized, "you be this for me, and I'll be that for you" co-parasitism. Charades can't last indefinitely, but repress the true self long enough and watch it eek out in grotesque ways.

    As confusedidentity mentioned, his pedestalization came from deep-seated feelings of unworthiness in his male-ness. Unworthiness of what? A perceived Goddess, as dictated to him by culture/media before he could even think critically.

    As you can tell this post really struck a chord and got my mind churning.

  46. "Hardly any examples from the '70s, '80s, and early '90s."
    Maybe, but this is the first example that came to mind for me https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Something_Wild_%281986_film%29

  47. Perhaps maybe it's just the internet shining a light on this sort of thing, but the nerdy autogyno phenomenon seems to have manifested in a number of ways:

    1. The "masking" subculture - usually older gentlemen wearing creepy full body suits and masks. They have comic con-like conventions.

    2. Whateley universe - An autogyno superhero fanfiction franchise popular enough to merit frequent mentions on "TV Tropes": "the Whateley Universe now encompasses something like 14 Canon authors, 20 fanfic authors also hosted on the site, and something close to 150 novels, novelettes, and short stories "

    3. Crossplay - Geeky anime nerds, dressing up as their favorite characters. Popular in Asia (perhaps it is tied in with the "grass eater" phenomenon?) as well as the west, with young women getting into the act as well.
    Some of them are unnervingly convincing:

    There are probably more ways this sort of thing is manifesting, but the three examples above seem to have one common thread. Many of the men involved in these activities have extreme social anxiety/shyness and often times a profoundly crippled sense of self esteem. In some cases (like the second video under #1) it comes from a physical deformity, like the subject's cleft palate. In most other cases, the causes of the underlying psychological trauma are not so clear. A lot of cases seem to contain triggers like divorce, incel, performance anxiety, and career setbacks.

    I suspect that what happens in these cases is that there is a self-esteem crisis that catalyzes the the initial disorder. The subject loses self confidence to the point of forsaking their identity, and takes on an alternative identity to cope. In a culture in which women are often pedestalized and lauded with traditionally male virtues to boot (witness the constant repetition of masculine terms like "fierce", "strong", "independent", "brave", etc. to glorify celebrity women), it seems possible that some men could find the idea of "hopping the fence" both appealing and even sensible.

    Add in:
    a. a fetishistic component to the identity
    b. constant positive media reinforcement of female identity as a virtue
    c. constant negative media reinforcement of masculine identity and authority
    d. the realities of liberated hypergamy (and the way it adversely affects men who aren't at the top of the social pyramid)
    e. the atomization and isolation of modern lifestyle

    and we have the recipe for a powerful, full-blown addiction.

    Given the above realities, this issue could be affecting a much larger portion of the population than one might expect.

  48. Great comment Julio, adding to the role of cultural transmission from East to West that has been a big part of this: I recently saw that Scarlett Johansson will get another BKB role in an adaptation of a manga Ghost in the Shell (which the Matrix was largely based on), predictably, the focus was only on SJW feigned outrage over a "white" actress getting the role (as if most animu/mango characters look like typical Japanese.

  49. Perhaps we're getting a taste (well, ok, a mouthful) of the excesses of a high inequality/low outgoingness period.

    Amorality/decadence are traits of high inequality, while a lack of outgoingness turns people into neurotic, asocial, and insecure bastards.

    I think when people are more connected to each other, we've got a better moral compass since we get lots of feedback from both friends and strangers alike. And we're more open to listening to that feedback. I think people are crazier nowadays in general since no one wants to "judge" anyone anymore and furthermore, nobody is willing to accept being criticized anyway.

    How many mass murderers, trannies, or hoarders do we need? People like this are totally unmoored by the vulgar/self-centered robber baron ethics of the day as well as cut off from help due to their own insecurity and the unwillingness of others to send them a message that their BS stinks.

    Lost in the hysteria over the bigoted past is that, sure, normal people could be cold at best to weirdo minorities. But it had the positive effect of keeping most of us on track. These days most people can't even find the track with the PC angst distracting us.

  50. "Many of the men involved in these activities have extreme social anxiety/shyness and often times a profoundly crippled sense of self esteem."

    The crypto-trannies sound more like a case of "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em".

    I don't see much demonization of masculinity, at least in the pop culture that these guys consume. Comic book movies, FPS video games, life hack YouTube instructionals, etc. Sure, there's anti-male stuff out there, but it's only on TV shows that chicks watch.

    It's more like they're failed males, defeated males, and rather than try to suck it up and make themselves better, they're switching over to the other side. In their minds, an awkward guy sets off a girl's defenses more than a fellow girl, so he'll just fantasize about being that fellow girl (must be a hot one, though, otherwise what's his appeal to his target girl?).

    We're not talking overt trannies, so it's not as though these guys are actually walking the walk on "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em," but that clearly fills their fantasy lives.

    It's like a relief valve -- if they're total failures as men, it must be the greatest fantasy to not even have to measure up to any male standards whatsoever. They become girls and sidestep the whole male mating dance stuff, which would have reminded them how little they resemble a dream guy in real life.

    However, when they fantasize about being a seductive babe, there's no cognitive dissonance with who they really are outside of fantasy land -- they're still male, and presenting as male, so they don't get depressed about not actually having large breasts and flowing hair. It allows them to compartmentalize.

    Contrast with the overt trannies, who get depressed about not looking like a babe, and are so possessed by body dysmorphia that they get hormones, make-up, clothing, even genital mutilation, in order to approximate their fantasy of themselves as babes.

  51. It would be interesting to look at female to male transgenders. From what I can tell, some of them appear to be the mirror image of these lesbian-fetish latent transgenders.

    Not the ones who are basically hardcore butch lesbians. These are the women who fetishized gay male relationships and fixated on them like the ultimate fag-hags, believing that gay male relationships are superior. These are mostly female nerds who grew up reading slash-fiction and japanese yaoi/"boy's love" comics.

    There used to be a female-to-male tranny at the TERF site GenderTrender who spammed the comments with stuff about how women's bodies are disgusting and lesbians and straight people are gross. So she's more like the female equivalent of an autogynephile.

    It seems to be a much smaller phenomenon than the male latent tranny, though. Fortunately.


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