April 28, 2020

Lesbians prefer butts over boobs, like mature straight men (lesbian maturity vs. gay Peter Pan-ism)

One area of the great big sexuality puzzle that I have yet to fill in is body shape preferences among lesbians. This topic connects with several others that I've already detailed, though, so it's pretty intuitive.

The two topics that predict lesbian body shape preferences are the psychological age profile of gays vs. lesbians, and the age profile of boob men vs. butt men among straight men.

Although I wrote extensively on these matters around 2012-'14, a recent post summed them up (to apply them in another case). The basic deviation underlying male homosexuality is being stunted in pre-pubescence, at the stage where there's a visceral disgust of all things girly, including of course girls themselves. "Ewww, girls are yucky!"

Freeze the mind, and to some extent the body, during that stage -- but then give them the usual dose of hormones around puberty, and you get 5 year-old boys with a sex drive (which targets the non-disgusting sex, i.e. males for someone with the mind of a 5 year-old boy). All symptoms of gay syndrome stem from this foundation. The only major part of the mind that is not affected is intelligence, which develops normally.

Lesbians are the other way around -- their social-emotional age is not just older than that of a pre-pubescent child, if anything they resemble menopausal women. That is, beyond the stage when they're curious about boys, want to catch the attention of boys, hang out with boys, and so on. They're past even the stage where they'd want a husband. They simply feel done with men, beyond men, past men, etc. They don't feel visceral disgust toward the male sexual body, in the way that gays feel toward the female sexual body. So it's not the same immature "Ewww, boys are smelly and gross!" mindset of a 5 year-old girl that gets frozen. It's more like a jaded middle-aged woman who's grown wary and weary of men, just plain old not-interested.

Hence their lower libido levels compared to straight women of the same age -- it's not grandmotherly or geriatric, more like approaching menopause. That's where "lesbian bed death" comes from, and their desire for a better word than "horny" to describe their sexual longing, desiring, pining, etc. It's simply not the same "horny" feeling that a 23 year-old straight girl feels driven by, even if the lesbian girl is also 23 years old. This discomfort resembles that of middle-aged straight women, who still feel some kind of sexual desire, but not the exact same kind or degree as what they felt right out of college.

To sum up: gays are distinguished by Peter Pan-ism (neoteny, pedomorphy), while lesbians are distinguished by maturity (specifically, approaching menopause).

So then, lesbians ought to have the body shape preferences of mature people who are attracted to women, like mature straight men. Other non-heterosexuals such as gay men and trannies, while not attracted to women, will hold the opposite view of "what makes a female body hot," and it will resemble the preferences of immature straight men.

How do mature vs. immature tastes differ among straight men? That's another ongoing topic here, and it's clear that the focus on boobs is the immature version, while the focus on butts is the mature version. Boobs are for nursing infants, butts are for pelvic contact during intercourse. Boob focus is analytic and fetishistic -- tunnel-vision on only the boobs themselves -- while butt focus is holistic and natural -- incorporating the broader fertility zone of the hips, waist, belly, and thighs. Toddlers are looking at the boobs, potential fathers-of-children are looking at the belly-hips-ass-and-thighs.

Given these two well established patterns, lesbians ought to show their maturity by focusing more on butts than boobs. Pursuing this hunch, I found two separate sets of lesbian responses that agree with the prediction, and none that suggest the opposite.

First, a brief video from Arielle Scarcella, a major figure in LGBT YouTube. There are only a handful of respondents, but there are 3 butt women, and just 1 boob woman. In a separate video (around 2:18), Arielle herself shows that she's fixated on the ass rather than the chest. I think if these responses were not representative, they would've said so -- "Well, I personally like butts, but then most lesbians do not," if the context is an informative video on lesbian body shape preferences. They do this in other contexts, like mentioning that most lesbians are bottoms, even if they're interviewing a top.

Then there's an opinion poll from the Actual Lesbians reddit group, with clearly defined responses. (Other reddit discussions on the topic either were dominated by guys and bisexual girls, or consisted of entirely non-committal answers and endless hand-waving about liking every part / there are no patterns in life / etc.) I count 10 boob women, 15 butt women, 2 leg women, and 5 waist / hips women, by their primary response. Lumping together the fertility zone responses, that gives more than 2 pelvic women for every boob woman.

Moreover, the type of shape is the same that mature straight men prefer -- even if you focused on the hips, you could hypothetically prefer a slim or a wide set of hips, and if you like thighs, you might prefer thick thighs or anorexic thighs. Overwhelmingly, though, lesbians responded with words like "thick," "curvy," "round," etc., not "slender," "skinny," "rectilinear," etc. Mature men -- like lesbian women -- are looking for a fertile baby-maker, not a pre-pubescent child.

Aside from the visual angle, lesbians use the same tactile words for what appeals to them about the ass. The stereotype is that lesbians are more gentle, like caresses, and that sort of thing -- but when when they talk about the ass, they say "grab," "pull in," "grind," "spank," and other more forceful words that mature straight men would use. These words link the ass with intercourse rather than mere foreplay or other fetishistic behavior -- it's part of intercourse to grab onto her ass, pull her in by her hips, or grind her ass into your pelvis. It's fetishistic foreplay to honk her boobs or fasten your lips onto her nipple, as the typical baby-like boob man does.

Presumably this would also show up in how lesbians display their bodies to one another, but I'm not going to create a fake lesbian Tinder account, or watch actual-lesbian porn videos, to investigate. I'll just assume that they are less likely to emphasize T rather than A, compared to straight women, and that they are more comfortable showing off their curves rather than competing over who has the biggest thigh gap. Their target audience is less likely to have juvenile tastes.

Perhaps a relevant anecdote will have to do for now. When closeted lesbian Taylor Swift wore body-reshaping clothing at an awards show, it was not a stuffed bra to beef up her B-cup breasts, but padded pants to bootify her pancake butt. Fellow closeted popstar Dua Lipa shows off her ass and thighs more than her chest in music videos. Getting a boob job would probably be seen among lesbians as selling out to the heteronormative male gaze -- but what they really mean is that as mature-minded women, they don't want to pander to awkward juvenile tastes ("baby want milkies").

So how does that make lesbians different from gay men and trannies, who are more immature? The latter two groups are far more likely to focus on the boobs when coming up with a visual of "the hottest female body". That's true both for gay men as cultural tastemakers, and trannies as men trying to look like hot women. Neither of them are going to say thick thighs, hourglass waist-to-hip ratio, round / large ass, and something of a belly.

Instead it's huge fake tits, minimal body fat, no curves, no softness, but with a hyperbolic girly costume, hair, and make-up. It's basically what a 5 year-old boy would look like if he played dress-up as a girl. They see boobs as the main difference between the sexes, not the voluptuous fertility figure. They're still remembering breast-feeding as the main different role between men and women, and are not at the stage of focusing on their different roles in baby-making.

This is part of the broader difference between lesbians and gays / trannies, where lesbians are more oriented toward fertility, minding children, nurturing, and mothering / parenting, whereas gays and trannies focus at most on sucking and fucking -- but not the supposed consequences of sex. It's lesbians who want to get married and adopt, not gays or trannies.

And trannies do not express their gender / body dysphoria by saying they've always felt like having a uterus and eggs, getting pregnant, giving birth, and nurturing children -- nor does their sex-change surgery seek to give them these biological functions. Rather, it's just about feeling sexually passive, and undergoing surgery to give them a fuckhole between their legs. It has nothing to do with femininity or womanhood, and is just part of gay / tranny misogyny (one of the few groups of males where misogyny actually is common and degrading).

Lesbian traits are harder to observe and explain, compared to those of gays and trannies, because they're less flaming and attention-whoring in public. It's hard to know which individuals to study in the first place. Lesdar is a much less blaring instrument than gaydar. But under quarantine, maybe I'll spend more time going to the source themselves online, to fill out their portrait.


  1. We think of lesbians as being more socially aggressive and in-charge, not shy and nerdy - more extroverted(corporeal/'normie', etc.) rather than introverted(abstract-oriented/neotenous, etc.)

    For instance, what are the occupations associated with lesbians? At least in the media, its mostly physical labor, police officers(like the character from "The Wire", and that was a liberal-made show), army soldiers, etc. Another example: in the made-for-tv series "If these Walls could Talk 2", they show a women's gay bar with women dressed up like bikers, etc.

  2. Yes, lesbians seem more corporeal than gays (more cerebral). I was going to make that into a separate post, but don't know how much new there is to say about it -- the stereotype of the lesbian who's into sports, the military, etc., is pretty well established.

    Ditto the stereotype about gays being into cerebral / informational sectors like PR, advertising, etc., and if anything feeling awkward or downright afraid of playing sports, joining the police, and so on.

    The only way that lesbians are less corporeal is not having the dancing bug the way that gays do. But I wonder whether that's just their different socio-sexual environments -- lesbians, not being promiscuous, don't go to leks to pick up randos. So why bother dancing?

    A better test would be to take lesbians and gays who do actually enjoy dancing, who's better at it, who's more natural? I have no clue.

    At any rate, lesbians are another piece of evidence showing that corporeal people are oriented toward a woman's buns rather than bust. (Gays and trannies are more cerebral, and identify womanhood with T rather than A.)

  3. Two other predictions: lesbians should like the "quiet storm" / slow jam / baby-making anthems more than gays. The first link in this post drew that distinction, but contrasting gay men with straight men and women, on the basis of their different psychological age profiles and the focus on fertility vs. promiscuity.

    Being more mature, lesbians should vibe with baby-making anthems like "Red Light Special," though perhaps less with hoe anthems, compared to gay guys.

    Also, bisexual / bicurious girls should display their ass and curves more than their tits when trying to appeal to lesbians. Assuming they've had enough experience with them, of course, to sense that lesbians are more interested in grabbing their butt than honking their boobs.

  4. Women with really large breasts tend to, paradoxically, have a more masculine/mesomorph body type - the reason being that they need strong shoulders, for obvious reasons.

    This breakdown shows that a classically "feminine" body type is actually the opposite of that - though even corporeals would prefer women having largish breasts, but not as big as would require stronger shoulders, and v-shaped body, to support them.

  5. You could also look at hot girl calendars for lesbians. My one sample showed me two things regarding their taste: boobs not interesting, youthfulness not interesting (but old hags still unacceptable). Mostly dark-haired med girls, can't remember any blondes.

  6. FYI, I think r/actuallesbians has an overrepresentation of "transbians", befitting the sub's protest-too-much name. I've seen some actual actual lesbians complaining about it in the gender-critical subs.


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