tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post9008178620300049506..comments2024-03-28T21:56:51.675-04:00Comments on Face to Face: Who is the West, and who is their threat?agnostichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-83583089184665068662017-07-10T08:35:21.632-04:002017-07-10T08:35:21.632-04:00America is going to collapse at some point, absent...America is going to collapse at some point, absent withdrawal from stupid escalating spats with countries. I think that without nukes and ICBMs, we would've long ago actively invaded much of the East, and we would've failed to capture much secure territory. Hastening our demise. We couldn't even capture all of Korea; how much else could we get if we tried to get much more?<br /><br />Also, remember opposition towards the Irag war? The sad thing is that anti-war movement regarding Russia is going to have to come from young generations and probably the right, since the Left and the neo-cons have masterfully painted Russia as the reason Trump was elected. And every liberal thought that there was no way Trump could win. Back with Iraq, it's not like everyone was utterly convinced that there was no way Saddam couldn't be responsible for 9/11 and other bad stuff. To put things in perspective, back in the oughts guys like Phil Donahue and Pat Buchanan had reservations even before the war started. Right now, no liberal over 45 would have any problem whatsoever with starting a full blown war with Russia.Ferylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01336057631877941839noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-82047991893472042602017-07-09T19:31:52.946-04:002017-07-09T19:31:52.946-04:00"
It's because the "War on Terrorism..."<br />It's because the "War on Terrorism" rhetoric was a red herring meant to give normal Americans a feeling of security and patriotism, while hoodwinking them into a war against Iraq, which had no role in the September 11th attacks, and which we had no chance of obtaining as a client state or a source of spoils."<br /><br />also, they were probably made naive by the 90s cocooning - thinking Americans would be greeted as liberators. Decision-makers were also effected by the cocooning - remember in '91, after 30 years of the crime rate rising, and in the aftermath of the first Gulf War, the elder Bush, James Baker, and Cheney decided not to occupy the country, arguing in a PBS interview that "we would still be there"(interview was in late 90s).<br /><br />Friedman is an interesting writer in that he outlines the way the elites think. He argues, as you do, that the U.S. wants to prop up Poland against Russia - and eventually try to collapse the Russian government and turn it into the "Wild West", wide open for corporate development. He says the ultimate plans are to fight another war against Japan, to truly get control of global trading. If you get the chance, you might want to check out his book "The Next 100 Years". Curtisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-42576135053079464012017-07-07T16:33:10.414-04:002017-07-07T16:33:10.414-04:00It's fine to target the upper-middle class wit...It's fine to target the upper-middle class with cultural values topics like defending Western civ, in order to shame them into being better stewards of the culture that produced all the good stuff and good institutions that we enjoy.<br /><br />But upper-middle class people are ignorant of global affairs, while being highly confident in their knowledge of things that just aren't so. I.e., Russia and Iran being greater threats to the West than Central Americans and Turks.<br /><br />Their focus and energies can be easily misdirected towards whatever the Establishment wants -- look how eagerly they jumped on board the War on Terror.<br /><br />Any attempt to make the upper-middle class into better stewards must make it clear who the real threats are, and thereby turn elite against elite -- some engineer or accountant against the managers of the Pentagon or Wall Street.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-58113640523168328772017-07-07T16:26:07.289-04:002017-07-07T16:26:07.289-04:00Reminder that only upper-middle-class people place...Reminder that only upper-middle-class people place high importance on cultural values topics like "Western civ, good or bad?"<br /><br />Working-class whites, while being on the pro-Western civ side, do not really pay much attention to that debate, and are more concerned with concrete material topics like employment, income, cost-of-living, and threats to the West who live in the same town as they do -- not on the other side of the world, if they cannot reach us here, or if we are not sent over there.<br /><br />Timely study suggesting that Trump got a big enough boost to win in WI, MI, and PA due to disillusionment with war hawk-ism, in places that had higher casualty rates from the War on Terror (controlling for other demo variables):<br /><br />https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2989040<br /><br />If the rank-and-file get sold another bill of goods about "defending Western civ" that turns out to be propping up Poland / Ukraine against Russia, or Saudi Arabia and Turkey, they're going to view the two parties as no different on wasteful pointless wars, rather than seeing the Democrats as the war hawk party as they did in 2016.<br /><br />The GOP would still have the trade / industrialization platform to keep these white working-class voters on board, but perhaps not in large enough numbers to win decisively. (I'm talking in 2024.)agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-71555208044060034382017-07-07T16:08:23.501-04:002017-07-07T16:08:23.501-04:00Aside from further embroiling ourselves in the bla...Aside from further embroiling ourselves in the black hole of the Middle East, we're going to drag ourselves into factional conflicts among the Balto-Slavs -- Poland, Ukraine, Baltics, vs. Russia.<br /><br />That is not what normal Americans think of when they cheer on sound bites like "defending Western civilization," so they will once again feel betrayed when the outcome is the opposite of what they'd been expecting. They thought it meant closing the borders, deporting illegals, halting refugees (especially from Muslim countries), and the like.<br /><br />But when it turns out to be continued H-1B visas, continued Muslim refugee flows, less deportation than under Obama, and using our military not to advance our own interests but instead to advance our so-called allies -- then the American people will really get turned off to Republican politics.<br /><br />It will be a worse backlash than after Bush, because Trump ran so strongly against the GOP orthodoxy and practice. They'll conclude that if even *he* gets blocked by the blob, then nobody has a chance of beating the bastards.<br /><br />Endorphin rushes only last so long, memories of disappointment or betrayal last forever.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-78058561389001752732017-07-07T16:08:08.200-04:002017-07-07T16:08:08.200-04:00That's why we have to read beyond the headline...That's why we have to read beyond the headlines and sound bites. Those are vague and abstract enough that anyone can fill in their own meaning, to rationalize their own worldview.<br /><br />What really matters is what the rhetoric is being used to advance in real-world policy plans. And those concrete details are in fact plentiful in the speech, you just have to read it in full, rather than hear "Trump defends Western civ" and declare victory.<br /><br />Sure, defending Western civ makes the Left paint themselves into a corner as they decry the idea even in abstract terms (no longer bothering with arguments like "gay marriage is a uniquely Western value"). But the Left alienating the people over multiculturalism -- so what else is new?<br /><br />We could've said the same about the "War on Terrorism" rhetoric during the Bush years -- how could you come out against combating terrorism? Checkmate liberals!<br /><br />Then wait a few years, and the conservatives get wiped out of both houses of Congress and the White House, losing deep red states like Indiana no less.<br /><br />It's because the "War on Terrorism" rhetoric was a red herring meant to give normal Americans a feeling of security and patriotism, while hoodwinking them into a war against Iraq, which had no role in the September 11th attacks, and which we had no chance of obtaining as a client state or a source of spoils.<br /><br />The Pentagon and Deep State are pursuing the same basic strategy, only changing the red herring to "defending Western civ" (which was already there in the War on Terrorism rhetoric) and "who cares how other people live their lives, if they want to ally with us?"<br /><br />Contradictory: are we going to defend Western civ by tying ourselves to Saudi Arabia or Turkey, which could not be more hostile toward Western civ?agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-62823745702497517732017-07-07T12:05:20.403-04:002017-07-07T12:05:20.403-04:00The Polish elites want to expand into the old Sovi...The Polish elites want to expand into the old Soviet sphere, and become the new superpower in Eastern Europe. George Friedman, of Stratfor, believes that Poland will eventually become the dominant country in Europe-Russia.Curtisnoreply@blogger.com