tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post8924171301907382062..comments2024-03-28T21:56:51.675-04:00Comments on Face to Face: Disrespectful kids these days agnostichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-16294463825023182252012-12-29T11:47:41.780-05:002012-12-29T11:47:41.780-05:00"They're more avoidant, not necessarily m..."They're more avoidant, not necessarily more polite."<br /><br />Right, you can never tell what a person is like until you put them to a test. Avoidant people don't have a high everyday level of defiance -- too much emotional investment in a confrontation, when you could just ignore them, hide somewhere else, and stew in your anger.<br /><br />What happens when they don't get their way? Or when something inconveniences them? That's the test. In those situations, kids are way brattier than they used to be. We really were afraid of getting hit back in the '80s.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-6158007095576710032012-12-29T11:45:00.996-05:002012-12-29T11:45:00.996-05:00"We owe this state of affairs largely to Dr. ..."We owe this state of affairs largely to Dr. Spock and his strictures against spanking."<br /><br />Another parallel between now and the mid-century, when his book became a smash seller. If you watch movies from the '40s and '50s, you see the parents struggling with themselves over hitting their kids, and almost always pulling back.<br /><br />They even squabble about it in the dialog, as though that kind of scene would resonate with the audience. The young couple in Naked City bicker about spanking their kid, and decide against it.<br /><br />The standard image of children they present is a bunch of them playing quietly indoors, not outdoors, or huddled around the TV set.<br /><br />The more free-wheeling childhood images are actually set back in the Jazz Age, the 1910s through the early '30s. Like the boyhood and teenage scenes from It's a Wonderful Life.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-4174214473952085272012-12-29T08:06:39.976-05:002012-12-29T08:06:39.976-05:00"Especially considering that based on my pers..."Especially considering that based on my personal experiences, kids and teens are far more polite than they were in the 1980's."<br /><br />They're more avoidant, not necessarily more polite. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-7065124199028606282012-12-28T19:03:42.379-05:002012-12-28T19:03:42.379-05:00Interesting. Especially considering that based on ...Interesting. Especially considering that based on my personal experiences, kids and teens are far more polite than they were in the 1980's. kurt9https://www.blogger.com/profile/02101147267959016924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-87016493978126989372012-12-28T10:40:34.964-05:002012-12-28T10:40:34.964-05:00We owe this state of affairs largely to Dr. Spock ...We owe this state of affairs largely to Dr. Spock and his strictures against spanking. As P.J. O'Rourke remarked, "I know you aren't supposed to spank children. But is it OK to punch them in the face now that they're 30?"Aaron Haspelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00527492171280066397noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-46622834536272356962012-12-28T09:35:44.775-05:002012-12-28T09:35:44.775-05:00"Younger than 11 they don't understand it..."Younger than 11 they don't understand it, and teenagers just think you're an idiot and that they know more than you, so your reasons have no validity."<br /><br />I think the other thing that appeals to reason do is signal to the kid that they're on your level, like an adult worker and an adult manager.<br /><br />Once the kid senses that, they just keep pushing back like a lawyer would:<br /><br />"If you snowboard down the stairs, you'll get hurt."<br /><br />"NO I WON'T!"<br /><br />"Yes you will, and I don't want you to get hurt."<br /><br />"NO I WON'T!"<br /><br />"..."<br /><br />"NO I WON'T! NO I WON'T! NO I WON'T!"<br /><br />Using physical force tells the kid that it's a one-way interaction, since they can't possibly to any damage back. That's also why you can't scream, like NZT said: they can easily go round-for-round in a screaming match.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-59652564989925217242012-12-28T09:29:41.085-05:002012-12-28T09:29:41.085-05:00"The child's first teacher is the parent ..."The child's first teacher is the parent (and, sadly, the TV)"<br /><br />It's more what they pick up from other kids. Like if all the neighborhood kids speak English but the parents speak Spanish, the kid picks English as his first language, maybe doesn't even speak in Spanish, although he could understand it.<br /><br />Same with clothing, hairstyles, hobbies, music -- copy your peers, not your parents.<br /><br />Based on what I've heard my nephew pick up, and reflecting on what I'd picked up by elementary school, it's not how adults use curse words.<br /><br />Grown-ups use them more for frustration -- Goddamnit all, what the fuck, how in the hell..., what a load of bullshit, etc.<br /><br />Children are using curse words as derogatory names aimed at a specific other person -- asshole, little bitch, shithead, etc. They didn't hear mommy call daddy a shithead, or daddy call mommy a little bitch. They must've heard one boy call another boy that in a playground dominance contest.<br /><br />The non-offensive words they use are also kiddie and from the playground -- mommy doesn't call daddy a stupidhead, and daddy doesn't call a mushroom-brain.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-41138589161527050442012-12-28T09:20:24.734-05:002012-12-28T09:20:24.734-05:00"My brother (his dad) made some comment about..."My brother (his dad) made some comment about he was just 4 1/2 and was too young to understand punishments"<br /><br />Yet old enough to benefit from appeals to empathy -- "How would you feel if....?" It's all part of keeping the kid's self-esteem at 100%.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-74937762478879479082012-12-28T09:17:05.861-05:002012-12-28T09:17:05.861-05:00"I hear the reverse from the loser Gen X pare..."I hear the reverse from the loser Gen X parents pretty often."<br /><br />See people, if you don't want your child to turn into a virgin internet tough-guy, make sure you beat them regularly.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-91226190221941051812012-12-28T07:18:00.994-05:002012-12-28T07:18:00.994-05:00Not in my household. My kids know the word "s...Not in my household. My kids know the word "stupid" and "hate" but know my mommy-stare well enough to never use them (they are 4 and 2).<br /><br />The child's first teacher is the parent (and, sadly, the TV). Kids are getting their vocabulary and the manner in which they use these words somewhere, usually mommy and daddy first. If the parents aren't careful to police themselves and they way THEY interact with other people and their kids, then the kids will pick up and execute the same behaviors. Then comes the challenge of disciplining it out of them, and it's too big a task once the behavior is ingrained. Kids who never see their parents express regret over using a bad word, or suffering any judgment for bad behavior, will be impervious to shaming or physical discipline.<br /><br />Oh, and you cannot use reason and discourse on any child under the age of 11, and probably not on any teenager, period. Younger than 11 they don't understand it, and teenagers just think you're an idiot and that they know more than you, so your reasons have no validity.Amyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02887726976835609577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-61744705935802362552012-12-28T04:36:05.090-05:002012-12-28T04:36:05.090-05:00Yet today it's quite common to hear 3-to-7 yea...<i>Yet today it's quite common to hear 3-to-7 year-olds shouting commands and insults right in their parents' face, in public.</i><br /><br />I hear the reverse from the loser Gen X parents pretty often. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-68648180642681408032012-12-27T14:05:53.851-05:002012-12-27T14:05:53.851-05:00Heh, last weekend my family was out enjoying a fir...Heh, last weekend my family was out enjoying a fire in the fire pit, and the 4-year-old nephew was throwing snowballs around. Eventually I told him that that was enough and it was time to settle down now, but he kept at it. Eventually I told him, calmly, that if he threw one more he was getting a swat on the butt, and he went ahead and did it, and got his promised reward (I didn't shout at him or get angry, but I wanted to do my bit to teach him the connection between actions and consequences). My brother (his dad) made some comment about he was just 4 1/2 and was too young to understand punishments, which seems odd to me since I'm pretty sure a puppy knows what a punishment means and I don't see any puppies speaking in complete sentences or playing complex games.NZTnoreply@blogger.com