tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post764302042620618263..comments2024-03-28T21:56:51.675-04:00Comments on Face to Face: Sub-cultures are dead, as straight guys drop out and cocoon online after the Great Financial Crisisagnostichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-10242609687367699312021-03-14T12:01:08.107-04:002021-03-14T12:01:08.107-04:00Look up the Song Girls Want to be with the Girls b...Look up the Song Girls Want to be with the Girls by The Talking Heads. Lamprey Miltnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-35883595091661191662021-03-08T17:57:11.689-05:002021-03-08T17:57:11.689-05:00That's right in line with the cocooning trend ...That's right in line with the cocooning trend - people become more OCD about their bodies and hygiene, but less actual sex.Curtisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-42998709238836167772021-03-07T23:42:14.220-05:002021-03-07T23:42:14.220-05:00This has less data but might be more up agnostic&#...This has less data but might be more up agnostic's alley. It's about the decline in eroticism in film since the 80s, even as fit bodies have become ever more fetishized:<br />https://bloodknife.com/everyone-beautiful-no-one-horny/<br />She includes a mention of 9/11 as having a cultural impact, but unlike agnostic doesn't argue it was a short-lived reversion to the 80s. Matthew Yglesias argues that this is the result of tv changing so that adults can watch more adult material at home, resulting in the demographic of theater-attendees skewing downward to teenagers.TGGPhttps://entitledtoanopinion.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-51348118186757751872021-03-04T12:46:59.401-05:002021-03-04T12:46:59.401-05:00“Gamer” is the only identity from recent years whe...“Gamer” is the only identity from recent years where the guys are around, but it doesn’t really fit the bill as a subculture. There’s no distinctive look or musical tastes that go with that. There’s a social scene and some shared lingo, but it’s too broad and varied - it’s like calling “TV watcher” a subculture.<br /><br />The death of subcultures from 2010 onward seems to coincide with the time employers began to scrutinize social media profiles and the pasts and private lives of prospective employees. You’ve already covered the job insecurity angle; this only compounds that. Every teenager who posted anything edgy or out of the ordinary on Facebook had parents breathing down their necks and yelling at them about how employers would see that and they’d never be able to get a job. Not that most of them listened right away, but I think some of level of fear over that did manage to sink in.<br /><br />The general mood of the 2010s was also very spiteful and cynical. Nails that stuck out tended to get hammered down. Emos, hipsters, and anyone else who had a weird look that stuck out got relentlessly made fun of - guys a lot more so than girls. Gays and trannies got a pass to be weird once it became de facto illegal to make fun of them, no such luck for straight dudes though.Vendettahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812812538430876798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-64149611537939876482021-03-03T22:39:59.704-05:002021-03-03T22:39:59.704-05:00I've previously referenced studies showing tha...I've previously referenced studies showing that popular music has gotten less complex. I just came across something (although it's from 2018) attempting to measure the musical diversity of all the Billboard hits and tracking how they have changed over time, starting from 1958. The eight dimensions their AI came up with are "acousticness, danceability, energy, instrumentalness, liveness, loudness, speechiness, valence". They concluded hit songs have indeed been getting more similar, and attribute that to songs having more credited writers (averaging out idiosyncracy) and super-producers having a larger share of hits to their name each year.<br />https://pudding.cool/2018/05/similarity/TGGPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11017651009634767649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-85267024058512594672021-03-03T02:43:52.569-05:002021-03-03T02:43:52.569-05:00As for cocooning and crime, rising-crime means out...As for cocooning and crime, rising-crime means outgoing mood, falling-crime means cocooning mood.<br /><br />Indeed, it's the social mood that determines the crime pattern. When people are outgoing, trusting of others in public spaces, letting their guard down in order to have fun and enjoy life and generally be carefree -- it opens them up to predators who take advantage of that guard-down situation. That sends the crime rate up.<br /><br />When crime rates get so high, it makes people question the worth of letting their guard down and trusting others in public spaces. So as crime soars high and long, people start cocooning in order to protect themselves from predators. That social mood works, and it sends the crime rate falling.<br /><br />But after crime rates have been falling for so long, people start to question the worth of keeping their guard up all the time everywhere around everyone. What could go wrong being more outgoing, letting your guard down, etc. -- it's not like we're plagued by criminals or anything?<br /><br />Then when people become more outgoing, they open the door to another crime wave, completing the cycle.<br /><br />In my model, the social mood changes before the crime rate does. Not by a decade or anything, but maybe 1 year to a few years.<br /><br />I'd thought I'd seen that initial change to the outgoing mood during 2019, especially the latter half. No phones, no screens, young people catcalling me from their car, brushing against me in public, all sorts of things that hadn't happened for years.<br /><br />Partly it was the shift in the excitement cycle (a separate cycle from crime and cocooning). From the refractory phase to the restless warm-up phase.<br /><br />But it also felt like people hanging out more, saying hi, and being more free-wheeling. I saw that more and more during 2020, despite the pandemic and lockdowns. Teenagers hanging outside a grocery store at the picnic table, at night... something that seemed more out of the '60s, '70s, or '80s.<br /><br />We'll see how that continues through 2021. I have noticed the bizarre and sudden return of staring down at screens in public. It was right after Biden's inauguration, whatever the link is. Hopefully temporary, then back to the outgoing trend (and rising-crime).agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-54214698712495978442021-03-03T02:33:13.374-05:002021-03-03T02:33:13.374-05:00I didn't say that. I said circa 2018, based on...I didn't say that. I said circa 2018, based on the last falling-crime period lasting 25 years (peak in '33, trough in '58). Most recent peak was '92, so trough in 2017, then rising after that.<br /><br />Obviously I didn't mean that right down to the year, but it looks to be pretty close -- if the stats about the homicide rate surge in 2020 are broadly about the nation (not just select cities), and continue through the coming years.<br /><br />The rising-crime periods are about 35 years -- the peak in '33 began rising at least by 1900, perhaps a few years before then. And the next wave began in '59 and lasted through '92.<br /><br />So I was fairly confident about the falling-crime periods also being a similar length across waves (about 25 years).<br /><br />Only difference is the rising-crime period lasts longer than the falling-crime period. Harder to stop a crime wave than to start one up.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-80466718984981412032021-03-02T20:35:17.045-05:002021-03-02T20:35:17.045-05:00You were saying that we would enter a rising crime...You were saying that we would enter a rising crime cycle in 2021. Would this new post imply that the cocooning cycle will continue indefinitely for another generation? <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-24870231406233108912021-03-01T21:27:23.189-05:002021-03-01T21:27:23.189-05:00The gays on alt tiktok are not even alt -- they...The gays on alt tiktok are not even alt -- they're just gay. That's the sole criterion for including one of them in the compilations, as though any kind of degenerate, abnormal, etc., trait qualifies you as alt, no matter how normie you are otherwise.<br /><br />Wow, he's got an undercut like every other gay has had for the past 10 years (but that no normal straight guy wears) -- so pay no attention to the fact he's wearing an olive-green polo shirt and a windbreaker like his normie dad probably wears. He's gay, and ranting about being gay / homophobia / etc., so ipso facto, he's going into an alt tiktok compilation!<br /><br />The trannies do at least make an effort to look alt, but then their whole deal is just copying girls, so no surprise there. They aren't included just because they're not heterosexual.<br /><br />Still, that just emphasizes how absent the "cis male" demo is from sub-cultures. It's bizarre.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-85773410742843613042021-03-01T21:15:24.523-05:002021-03-01T21:15:24.523-05:00When was the last time juggalos were spotted in th...When was the last time juggalos were spotted in the wild? Speaking of college vs. non-college guys, juggalos were one of the most working-class sub-cultures. And 99% of those guys were straight.<br /><br />Of course there were juggalettes as well, since any thriving sub-culture has both sexes mixing it up with each other.<br /><br />On the Alt TikTok compilations, I see girls who are spiritual descendants of juggalettes. But (straight) guys who paint their faces to look spooky? Nowhere to be seen.<br /><br />It's not just juggalos, though -- goths used to do black-and-white face paint, as did other sub-cultures (followers of KISS and King Diamond among metalheads).<br /><br />Damon Zex, the local legend cable-access performance artist in Columbus, Ohio during the '90s, wore black-and-white face paint.<br /><br />It used to be one of the go-to styles for alt guys. Who's doing it now?<br /><br />No one, and nothing has replaced it. It's not as though the same type of guys are doing the same type of thing, only it's red-and-black instead of white-and-black. Or they shade the borders between color spaces, instead of them being in stark contrast. Not even single-color make-up around the eyes, a la Alice Cooper.<br /><br />The whole "alt guys painting their faces" thing is dead.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-16280865829008079202021-03-01T21:03:31.639-05:002021-03-01T21:03:31.639-05:00Breakdancing sub-culture has died off, too, despit...Breakdancing sub-culture has died off, too, despite the revival of dance fever as of 2020. Why no breakdancing trends on TikTok?<br /><br />In the late 2000s, that was no more niche than skateboarding used to be. There was a dedicated breakdancing room in one of the clubs I used to hang out at. Most of the breakdancers themselves were guys, though there was at least one girl. But the spectators were mixed-sex. They had their own look, their own music, and their own paraphernalia (like carrying around a boombox -- at least an mp3 player built like one).<br /><br />That covered all races at the time. I think white guys, and other non-black guys, got into breakdancing in the early 2000s.<br /><br />Another sub-cultural note -- in "Lollipop" Lil Wayne mentions that his girl has "swag like mine" and wears her hair down her back "like mine". They're both part of the same sub-culture, wearing the same distinctive clothes, and unusually for blacks, wearing really long hair.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-76394605250029252742021-03-01T11:09:38.885-05:002021-03-01T11:09:38.885-05:00"I can't think of any new sub-cultures af..."I can't think of any new sub-cultures after the scene kids, who got started back in the late 2000s. "<br /><br />When Americans finally warmed up to EDM in the early 2010s, there was the new generation of ravers which was aesthetically distinct from the 90s ravers (with the baggy clothes) - these wore more neon clothes, tanktops, workout shorts, Camelback bags, etc. Possibly enough to be its own distinct rave style.Lukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06130067781811312201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-9566378635875528392021-03-01T02:34:43.149-05:002021-03-01T02:34:43.149-05:00BTW, non-white guys have also dropped out of sub-c...BTW, non-white guys have also dropped out of sub-cultures. It's not just white sub-cultures that are no longer spawning new forms.<br /><br />"Alt" black culture used to have (wannabe) gangsters, thugs, ballers, and general hood identity, in various incarnations. The music derived from rap, especially after gangsta rap in the '90s cemented the link between music and broader cultural identity signals.<br /><br />When was the last black alt identity formed? Again the 2000s, with the last of the thug / baller variations. More on the aspirational, hustling side, not a celebration of ghetto backgrounds or living in the projects. Their hang-outs were the strip club, where they tried to pick up girls who were into thugs and ballers, as well as other clubs with VIP sections, ordering bottle service, etc. T-Pain, Lil Wayne, Akon, and so on.<br /><br />It was an entire scene or lifestyle, not just a certain way of dressing. It was all IRL, socially interactive, including both guys and girls. The girls followed the same basic norms as the guys -- not celebrating a ghetto background or living in the projects, but glamming up their clothes, getting their hair done nice, taking over the club on girls' night out, dancing to thug rappers who were singing about them.<br /><br />The type of girl they're singing about in "Low," which goes into detail about what the specific look required -- apple-bottom jeans, boots with the fur, baggy sweatpants, Reeboks with the straps. Where they hang out, what their activities are (club, dancing).<br /><br />They're celebrating a sub-culture, not just "black culture" in some timeless generic sense. It's that specific sub-culture of the 2000s.<br /><br />These days, you don't see black guys dressed and styled in an identifiably sub-cultural way, listening to the same music as each other, hanging out in the same public places, including girls with the same tastes, and so on. Contrast that with any music video showing the gangsta rap scene of the '90s (probably a house party, a la "Gin and Juice"), or the thug / baller scene of the 2000s (in an exclusive dance / strip club, a la "Lollipop" or "Smack That").<br /><br />I don't even recall black sub-cultures of the 2010s -- entire scenes with guys and girls, not just "here's how a handful of gay weirdos are dressing themselves in the hopes of appearing in a street fashion candid shoot for some digital fashion website".<br /><br />Black girls still make an attempt to do alt or sub-cultural signaling. Some of it is shared with white girls' alt looks, like wearing pastel pink wigs (just spotted one the other day in a thrift store).<br /><br />So the reasons must be similar -- the end of any material dream after the Great Recession, which black guys never recovered from, just like white guys. And therefore feeling like the drop-out choice is better than trying. Video games, watching streamers, porn, and the rest of pod life.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-21847732737726281542021-03-01T02:04:39.628-05:002021-03-01T02:04:39.628-05:00By not wearing dresses or crop tops, duh. Just lik...By not wearing dresses or crop tops, duh. Just like any of the other zillions of sub-cultures that came in a male and female variation on a single underlying theme.<br /><br /><i>How would a guy look like one of those subcultures without looking like a girl?</i><br /><br />E.g. the severe side part and bangs-in-the-eyes hairdo for both emo guys and girls, skinny vs. baggy jeans for both, black-and-white color palette (or bright colors for scene kids).<br /><br />For the current alt / e-girl look, how hard would it be for guys to wear black Doc Martens boots? That's a staple for the alt-girl look, and yet I've literally only seen one guy wearing black Doc boots in years of going to thrift stores (they're iconic and easy to spot).<br /><br />If anything, those boots look more masculine, not dainty, so it should be easier for guys to wear them, and more daring and gender-bending for girls to -- like it was back in the '90s during the grunge and industrial heyday. "Wow, that chick must be badass, she's wearing Doc Martens boots to school..."<br /><br />Black-and-white palette, easy to do for guys. White collared shirt with a black jacket or vest, easy. Wear a black tie with it -- a staple of the edgy rocker look of the 2000s. Dye your hair. Mix in plaids with your black-and-white palette. Wear a t-shirt over a long-sleeved shirt that's striped, checkered, or other high-contrast pattern.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-7227468030249802982021-03-01T01:47:47.537-05:002021-03-01T01:47:47.537-05:00College doesn't give you a brighter future any...College doesn't give you a brighter future anymore, so there's no big diff between college guys and non-college guys as far as getting girls and taking part in a sub-culture are concerned.<br /><br />"College grads earn X amount over non-college grads, over their lifetimes" is wrong because it necessarily uses data from people old enough to have completed most of their lives, i.e. Boomers. Yes, for them going to college was a gigantic boost to their lifelong living standards.<br /><br />Projecting that onto the X-ers, Millennials, and Zoomers is complete BS. It's not a static fact of the world, like "attractive people are more likely to get hired". The higher ed bubble has been ballooning for decades now, meanwhile the spots for college grads in the economy is the same or shrinking. Too many grads, not enough good jobs for them.<br /><br />Over-production of elites, a cyclical pattern that goes back millennia. See Turchin & Nefedov's Secular Cycles.<br /><br />Today's college grads are not like yesterday's college grads, so whatever applied to the Boomer college grads will not apply to Zoomer college grads -- maybe even the opposite, like you end up working a series of shitty McJobs (barista, etc.), while being saddled with tens of thousands of non-dischargeable student loan debt. If so, going to college *reduces* your lifelong living standard.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-31466749107991263382021-02-28T04:30:10.525-05:002021-02-28T04:30:10.525-05:00How would a guy look like one of those subcultures...How would a guy look like one of those subcultures without looking like a girl?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-74396437572687095132021-02-27T23:30:22.370-05:002021-02-27T23:30:22.370-05:00How do college students compare to non-students? ...How do college students compare to non-students? Since they have brighter futures, are college men interacting with women more than non-college men?<br /><br />Or is everyone suffering?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com