tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post6565203575535629913..comments2024-03-28T18:59:21.172-04:00Comments on Face to Face: Groups who can ruin a public space with just one of them present agnostichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-34405888511201727442012-11-05T00:41:07.189-05:002012-11-05T00:41:07.189-05:00Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't ...Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't immigration rates go down in the years following 9/11? And don't you argue that that period was less cocooned?<br /><br />-CurtisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-39664292142965790622012-11-05T00:33:33.141-05:002012-11-05T00:33:33.141-05:00"These parents are very aggressive about make..."These parents are very aggressive about make us accept and accomadate their offspring."<br /><br />The mothers are, the men are often exactly like their sons.<br /><br />I won't give another boring rant, but basically: some people argue that the mothers of gays and autistics have very high levels of testosterone, which makes them aggressive and domineering. <br /><br />I don't know if that's true. But I'll say this: I really don't believe the popular research which claims that gay men and autistics are "hypermasculine".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-78165787132756593772012-11-05T00:10:14.881-05:002012-11-05T00:10:14.881-05:00"Contrary to popular belief, government polic..."Contrary to popular belief, government policies have become less heavy-handed since the 90s."<br /><br />The Drug War is basically done with too.<br /><br />You can tell because libertarians only started pushing for drug legalization, founding activist groups based on that, etc., during the mid-1990s and later, i.e. when the Drug War was already unwinding.<br /><br />Despite their talk, they're so afraid of coming off as anti-establishment that they'll only push for some libertarian program once the broader society has begun to move in that direction.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-14096970241027459142012-11-05T00:06:31.949-05:002012-11-05T00:06:31.949-05:00"Might be interesting to look at migration(pe..."Might be interesting to look at migration(people moving residence within their own country) rates, and see how they correlate with the crime rate."<br /><br />I've been meaning to do migration stuff for a year or so, but that opens a whole 'nother can of worms, since I could probably find data back to Medieval times. Gotta type out this dissertation sometime...<br /><br />But briefly, it looks like the main shifts are the obvious ones -- migration away from urban areas during rising-crime times, and then back into cities during falling-crime times.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-20257831163701800262012-11-04T22:32:57.952-05:002012-11-04T22:32:57.952-05:00""Do you think that the internet and sur...""Do you think that the internet and surveillance technologies will dampen the pro-social effects of the next rising crime period?""<br /><br /> Police actions are actually a lot softer now than they are during rising-crime periods. Oddly enough, surveillance technology reflects this, since before, if the police were suspicious of you, they would just come barging into your house and haul you off. During falling-crime periods, police(and the government in general) becomes less intrusive in people's lives. Surveillance technology is an outgrowth of this "leave me alone" attitude.<br /><br />Compare the response to the protesting at the '68 DNC convention and the response to "Occupy Wall street", for instance. Contrary to popular belief, government policies have become less heavy-handed since the 90s. I believe this is because of popular demand. Falling crime rates make people less willing to tolerate government or police intrusion in their personal lives.<br /><br />In rising-crime times, on the other hand, its the opposite. The popular media glamorizes "tough cops" who break police procedural rules to get the job done. Dirty Harry is the archetype of this, where Clint Eastwood is forced to break the law to put down a deviant. The Charles Bronson movies fall into this category, Lethal Weapon with Mel Gibson(at one point, Gibson, as a cop, approaches a suicidal man about to kill himself, but then throws him off the ledge!), Dragnet in the early 60s, etc. <br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-9431167680529731922012-11-04T21:48:23.178-05:002012-11-04T21:48:23.178-05:00People also are offended by different things. Per...People also are offended by different things. Perhaps you're living in the wrong neighborhood...<br /><br />As I said, maybe cocooning is just the result of different types of people all being shoved together. Gays actually had *much* more provocative public behavior during rising-crime times, but they limited it only to certain neighborhoods. For instance, watch the movie "Milk".<br /><br />I think this may be tied to the society's attitudes towards immigration. Letting in lots of immigrants may somehow encourage internal migration within the country, or something like that. Immigration seems also to correlate with crime rate cycles. The early part of the century 1900-1930 seems to have been strict on immigration. Not sure about the 1930-1960 periods or 1960-1990, But I know the huge onslaught of illegal immigration seems to have started in the 90s.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-91852158697734589282012-11-04T21:35:29.059-05:002012-11-04T21:35:29.059-05:00Its not just that deviant types are out and about....Its not just that deviant types are out and about. There's been a lot of mobility and moving around the country, so people who aren't like each other are now living side by side. This causes cocooning. <br /><br />Might be interesting to look at migration(people moving residence within their own country) rates, and see how they correlate with the crime rate. Of course, immigration rates have been rising high since the mid-80s. I think they started falling in 2010, but I"m not sure. <br /><br />Where I live, there aren't a lot deviant gays. I don't mind gays that much, to be honest, but I never encountered the skeevy ones. <br /><br />-CurtisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-72157529098976284792012-11-04T19:24:16.235-05:002012-11-04T19:24:16.235-05:00Wait, MTV doesn't show music videos anymore?Wait, MTV doesn't show music videos anymore?asnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-9504398289622542862012-11-04T18:57:02.056-05:002012-11-04T18:57:02.056-05:00"Random passersby will certainly jump in to v..."Random passersby will certainly jump in to verbally defend homosexuals, and I'll be the one run out of the public space."<br /><br />I've never experienced that, and I hang out at a pretty liberal Starbucks where it's not uncommon for 20% or more of the guys there to be queer.<br /><br />The key is to keep it casual and matter-of-fact, and obviously not to direct it right at the nearby fags. I think that's what would cause a scene. But just two guys talking that way in a normal tone of voice doesn't rise to the level where the police feel the need to step in.<br /><br />Remember, most libs are wimps and only come out of the woodwork when they're sure the rest of the world is like them. Look at how little they pushed the pro-gay agenda in the '80s or earlier. They knew it wouldn't gain any traction.<br /><br />They only get really aggressive when they feel like they're preaching to the choir, like there's an audience of groupies eager to hear them really put on a good show.<br /><br />They might get huffy, squirm, and scurry off to post something snarky on Facebook or Twitter, but they're not going to confront you over a mellow anti-gay conversation. Just don't go shouting "Fags should be put in death camps" or something bizarre, and it'll be OK.<br /><br />And like you said, you need a partner to be talking to, not just muttering to yourself. One person's speech is just an opinion -- two people's speech is a consensus.<br /><br />Remember those social psych experiments by Asch on breaking conformity. All it takes is for you to see one person rebel against the craziness, and you breath a deep sigh of relief and rebel against it too -- "So I'm not the only one!"<br /><br />There are more of you in that public space than you're aware of. But someone has to be the first to send the signal that not everyone is on board the weirdo gay bandwagon.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-20786301663454684962012-11-04T18:47:40.923-05:002012-11-04T18:47:40.923-05:00"Do you think that the internet and surveilla..."Do you think that the internet and surveillance technologies will dampen the pro-social effects of the next rising crime period?"<br /><br />I don't think so. Surveillance tech was more prevalent in the '80s than in the mid-century or the Jazz Age, but it was still a low point of self-consciousness, and people were outgoing.<br /><br />The internet is a tougher call to make. People shape the tech they use according to their preferences, so I see the internet either fading in importance for people's everyday lives, and/or being re-made in a more fun-loving direction.<br /><br />The closest case study here is the changing nature of radio. In the mid-century it was the main narrative medium, along with game shows and stand-up / variety hour shows. Then it got turned into a pop music medium.<br /><br />Granted, the emergence of TV was part of that change too, but then even TV during the '80s moved more toward pop music and away from long-form serial narratives. MTV.<br /><br />Then during the last 20 years, people stopped listening to the radio for pop music (don't know if it's even listened to much at all anymore). And the pop music part of TV is gone, like how MTV stopped showing videos.<br /><br />TV has made a comeback with long-form serial narratives, plus the game shows and musical variety hours that used to rule the mid-century.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-20147938318387020832012-11-04T11:00:26.902-05:002012-11-04T11:00:26.902-05:00During the last rising crime period, the internet ...During the last rising crime period, the internet didn't exist (outside of DARPA) and street surveillance cameras were much less common than they are today. Do you think that the internet and surveillance technologies will dampen the pro-social effects of the next rising crime period?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-8232236550718242622012-11-04T02:02:57.761-05:002012-11-04T02:02:57.761-05:00>just start casually and calmly dismissing fagg...>just start casually and calmly dismissing faggots and their stunted silly ways<br /><br />Maybe I'm one of those cowards who's part of the problem, but I just don't see this going well. Random passersby will certainly jump in to verbally defend homosexuals, and I'll be the one run out of the public space. There are tons of people out there itching to show off their enlightened tolerance. Of course, should anyone escalate the situation, I'd be the one behind bars, and everyone involved knows it. <br /><br />I recall the time I had to stop a girlfriend from causing a scene in a theater because she overheard one man say to another, at a reasonable, private-conversation-level volume, "That's so gay." Some people are born to be volunteer censors. Under another order they'd be your natural allies, but the dominant norms aren't yours. I suppose a partner in crime would help.Lawful Neutralnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-38453816808546327182012-11-03T17:42:07.190-04:002012-11-03T17:42:07.190-04:00"I heard this story about some guy who was ly..."I heard this story about some guy who was lying down on the subway, taking up multiple seats, during rush hour. Apparently, no one said anything to him. "<br /><br />I've got a similar story where I harassed one of those lardass scooter women on the train, after she kept delaying the train from leaving by whining on and on to the conductor about unfairness. I should write that up as its own little post.<br /><br />I still get a warm satisfaction remembering that.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-2117007526880515802012-11-03T17:39:13.224-04:002012-11-03T17:39:13.224-04:00"These parents are very aggressive about make..."These parents are very aggressive about make us accept and accomadate their offspring."<br /><br />I hadn't heard about that aspect of it. My only experience with autistic kids was tutoring one at a center I worked at. He was pretty high functioning too, but I can see how he'd be disruptive in a social setting like a puppet show.<br /><br />My inclination is to cut them more of a break, but I'm also pulled the other way when the parents try to be as permissive as possible, rather than make a good-faith effort to keep their kid from putting everyone else's guard up and closing themselves off. It's such a slap in the face from the parents.<br /><br />You know how they normally offer a variety of snacks on a flight? When I was flying a few weeks ago, they announced that they were canceling the option of peanuts and that everybody had the choice of pretzels or nothing, all because one parent said her kid had a peanut allergy.<br /><br />It wasn't enough to simply keep her own child from eating peanuts -- if someone 20 rows back opened that dinky little packet, a dust storm of peanuty poison was sure to overwhelm her darling.<br /><br />I never eat that stuff, I couldn't have cared less personally. But seeing people fuck with others so baldfacedly, so guiltlessly, and with no one else shoving back... it's a good thing I was sleep-deprived and nodding off.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-60899058580129437632012-11-03T17:30:50.119-04:002012-11-03T17:30:50.119-04:00"What're you going to do, wage a one-man ..."What're you going to do, wage a one-man war against bums and homosexuals?"<br /><br />That's an exaggeration of what it takes to keep fags and bums from spoiling a communal space. All before the 1990s, homosexuals aimed for inconspicuousness, afraid of being given dirty looks, pointed at, teased, or occasionally threatened physically.<br /><br />But queers have such thin skin and are so incapable of dealing with ordinary stress that you don't need to wage a one-man war. It's often as simple as hanging out with another like-minded person, and if you see / hear one ejaculating verbally in public, just start casually and calmly dismissing faggots and their stunted silly ways.<br /><br />Keep it up for a few minutes, and they'll usually head off. Nothing stings them more than rejection by strangers. They're so invested in the idea that they'll only be fine if the entire world hugs and applauds them, so even a small disruption of that ideal sends them mincing off in a huff.<br /><br />The only reason that gays are so uninhibited about ruining the spaces they visit is that they've sensed that straights have gradually removed all attempts at shaming them into trying to act normal -- with the homophiles actively egging them on to limp out, but with the would-be shamers abdicating their duty as well. More of the same will not turn things around.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-15753833740394220152012-11-03T17:19:30.408-04:002012-11-03T17:19:30.408-04:00I heard this story about some guy who was lying do...I heard this story about some guy who was lying down on the subway, taking up multiple seats, during rush hour. Apparently, no one said anything to him. <br /><br />Then this kind of overly intense possibly military person yelled at him, and he got up, though he complained at being yelled at. And then other passengers on the train were able to sit down. asnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-5988525621532017422012-11-03T15:08:05.618-04:002012-11-03T15:08:05.618-04:00I would add autistic kids, retarted kids also. I t...I would add autistic kids, retarted kids also. I took my kids to a puppet show at the library and some autistic was literally barking and growling throughout the event. The mother had him sitting in the front and acted like this was normal. These parents are very aggressive about make us accept and accomadate their offspring.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-52138100449530888212012-11-03T07:11:25.291-04:002012-11-03T07:11:25.291-04:00>And the typical conservative could care less, ...>And the typical conservative could care less, hiding away from all that mess and browsing / purchasing only from Amazon, going to the fast food drive-thru, etc. Let somebody else worry about it, not me since I don't use that space anymore.<br /><br />It's a chicken-and-egg problem. What're you going to do, wage a one-man war against bums and homosexuals? If you do, you'll soon find that mighty Caesar stands with your enemies.Lawful Neutralnoreply@blogger.com