tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post796347129456443244..comments2024-03-28T21:56:51.675-04:00Comments on Face to Face: Ethnic composition of the anti-woke leftagnostichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-44485957518841983972023-04-08T21:33:43.309-04:002023-04-08T21:33:43.309-04:00damn, things have changed a lot since this list of...damn, things have changed a lot since this list of anti-woke leftists was compiled. Kyle Kulinski went full libtard, Aimee Terese went full conservative culture warrior, and Justin Murphy became an Urbit shill. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-9126541344837697002019-08-28T10:59:14.250-04:002019-08-28T10:59:14.250-04:00(cliff arroyo)
The Hungarian language is not slav,...(cliff arroyo)<br />The Hungarian language is not slav, but genetic research shows that most "Hungarians" are Magyarized Slavs and/or Germanics.<br />Culturally, it's Central European with lingering eastern influence from the communist period.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-16626907464796420762019-08-27T13:33:56.419-04:002019-08-27T13:33:56.419-04:00Just discovered these two women earlier, and they ...Just discovered these two women earlier, and they seem to represent the very best in the political world, Kristina and Celia of the Whistleblower Newsroom:<br />https://youtu.be/pZsho-RW_HQ<br /><br />It's one of the best things I've come across in the political world. I've heard Ed Butowsky interviewed on a handful of internet and radio broadcasts discussing his role in Russiagate and all have been good, especially Consortium News, but these women were especially empathetic and perceptive. <br /><br />It'll restore anyone's faith.Anon202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-79695498422950837172019-08-27T06:27:09.598-04:002019-08-27T06:27:09.598-04:00The funniest part is how marginal "the list&q...The funniest part is how marginal "the list" is -- it's just an appendix, the dry technical part relegated to the end, where the writer expects most people won't care about reading it.<br /><br />The main body of the text is not about the individuals on the list -- no one cares about them per se, they're just there to substantiate a claim. It's the broader discussion of how ethnicity and class interact in the kind of political / economic system we have, with a prelude from the anti-woke left itself making the main empirical claim for me, though not proposing an explanation.<br /><br />The screengrabbers were careful to remove the prelude from an anti-woke left source, as well as the entire body of the argument, leaving just the title and appendix. "Here's the name of some list -- who's in, who's out?" Submoronic clickbait for Millennials. Only Anna K, ever going against the grain, bothered reading the body and responding to the main argument.<br /><br />Social media cannot promote thinking, its sole function is to keep depressive ADD brains hooked up to a constant flow of hot take stimuli, to provoke enough emotional reflexes to comfort the reader in knowing they're still physically alive, and delay suicide another day. A "hellsite" indeed.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-42040589783891471932019-08-27T06:15:56.018-04:002019-08-27T06:15:56.018-04:00Last thoughts for now: even the anti-woke left is ...Last thoughts for now: even the anti-woke left is still gripped by Nazi panic, albeit not as badly as the woke left. They may not think Tucker, a mainstream media figure, could transform America into Nazi Germany, as the woketards believe. And they may see ploys by the neolib Establishment to cast contemporary affairs in terms of 1930s Germany as the empty distraction that they are -- where the only solution is to vote back in the pre-Nazi guys like Biden and Warren.<br /><br />And yet all it took was a post on their ethnic backgrounds to send the anti-woke left into a panic, on the whole. For some the reflex was "Holy shit, someone's made a list of ethnic groups to exterminate!" If they took two seconds to skim the post, they can tell it's a positive list, not a negative one. But still the reflex, "Holy shit, I may be on this safe list, but that means all other groups not listed are slated for extermination!" Either way, it's a Nazi list drawn up for eugenic purposes.<br /><br />For others, the reflex was more conceptual than practical: "Holy shit, can you believe some people still believe in race science and skull measurements? I thought that died out with the Nazis, but guess not!" No mention of race or DNA or physical traits in the post, only discussions of historically constructed ethnicities, but there's no such thing in the liberal mind anymore.<br /><br />All traits ascribed to ethnic groups are taken to be claims about essential qualities at the microbiological level, not the outcome of social / cultural / historical processes. The claim may *seem* like a sociological one -- but that's just a disguise for their eugenic motives that are truly, secretly based on DNA, race, physiognomy, etc. Nobody talks about ethnic differences who isn't a crypto- or overt Nazi.<br /><br />Odd as it may appear, the anti-idpol crowd has thoroughly essentialized ethnicity. "Don't talk about group identities" is not a materialist strategic move to focus on class first, but an idealist commandment not to open Pandora's box of dangerous taboo ideas -- which includes any discussion of ethnic differences.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-73347222914370398752019-08-27T04:21:56.771-04:002019-08-27T04:21:56.771-04:00Vivek Chibber is the only well known upper-caste I...Vivek Chibber is the only well known upper-caste Indian leftist who's staunchly against woke-ism, considering it a heresy against Marxism. But he's like Adolph Reed among African-Americans -- well known, but not part of a broader network of fellow travelers from his own ethnic background. Most of their fans are from other ethnic groups -- if I had to guess, probably white Southerners and Ellis Islanders!<br /><br />Sadly, most Indian and Af-Am leftists in the US are deeply committed to wokeness.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-3553932426612466832019-08-27T04:21:31.065-04:002019-08-27T04:21:31.065-04:00Genes and cultural customs are pretty stable for s...Genes and cultural customs are pretty stable for several generations after the first wave of immigrants. Perhaps not so much the customs that have little material pay-off -- religion usually declines into secularism / no religion, since there is little material benefit to practicing Hinduism in a non-Hindu country, or Islam outside of a Muslim country, etc.<br /><br />But the cultural customs that do raise the material prospects of an individual and their extended family -- oh, you bet those customs are going to stay firmly entrenched. The cram school practices of East Asian Mandarins, or upper-caste South Asians. Parents not allowing you to marry outside your class / caste. Parents not allowing you to pursue a career outside of the professional goals of your parents. And so on and so forth.<br /><br />The customs associated with the caste system help the people navigate an ethnically stratified class hierarchy, so those too will stay strong among South Asian immigrants. That will give them more of an advantage at benefiting from the woke system, compared to immigrants -- even wealthy ones -- from a culture without a caste system.<br /><br />There's something going on there, since upper-caste South Asians make up a very small percent of the North-Am population, but are heavily represented in the woke left -- Waleed Shahid, Saikat Chakrabarti, Saira Rao, Jeet Heer, even Bhaskar Sunkara (more of a flip-flopping socialist, who props up Liz Warren). And those are only the big names, not to mention Twitter "influencers" with modest profiles.<br /><br />The only exception I can think of is Zaid Jilani, and he's Pakistani. I know he's not a socialist, but he is on the left rather than the right, and he is anti-woke rather than woke. And there's you among the Indians, but the Dems wouldn't let you run the campaign of the next AOC, since you'd try to make the person more like Bernie rather than more like Liz Warren.<br /><br />Maybe the divide is Pakistani vs. Indian -- hard to tell, since there's only Jilani to point to.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-2456870744415429502019-08-27T03:05:07.761-04:002019-08-27T03:05:07.761-04:00Ethnicity is pretty stable, but I'm discussing...Ethnicity is pretty stable, but I'm discussing political coalition membership. The Irish in America still refer to themselves as "the Irish," not so much "Irish-Americans" etc. They know who they are, and the other groups know who the Irish are. That is stable.<br /><br />But what is not stable is their allegiance to either of the two major political parties, or what kind of agenda they want their usual party (Democrats) to pursue. When they were the recent arrivals at Ellis Island, they went right into the Democrat machine and stayed that way for awhile.<br /><br />But as they assimilated, they did not stand out as new immigrants anymore. We had closed borders during the New Deal, but around the mid-1970s the floodgates were opened again (part of the transition from the New Deal to neoliberalism, to cut costs for labor-intensive sectors by importing cheap labor).<br /><br />Suddenly, these new immigrant groups are the exotic ones who need to be bought off with reserved seats at the political table, or else their groups will not become well integrated into the American empire. So the Democrats took the Irish, Italian, Polish, etc., votes for granted, and moved on to courting the elites from Hispanic, African immigrant, South Asian, East Asian, etc. backgrounds.<br /><br />The Democrats kept the reserved seat for African-Americans since they felt it would be too risky to take them for granted and alienate them. They're more exotic to the American system than Irish or Italians.<br /><br />Now you have a situation where the old Ellis Islanders -- minus the Jews, who have since joined the WASPs in the primary elite stratum -- have little material motive to pursue woke politics, while the aspiring elites of new immigrant groups and among the old Af-Ams have every reason to pursue that.<br /><br />If the old Ellis Island groups do not have guaranteed spots in the elite set aside for them, justified on the grounds of wokeness and diverse representation, then they have a lot *less* to lose by toppling the tower of wokeness.<br /><br />That's the only way to explain the NYC Dem primary from 2016. Ellis Islanders from Staten Island and Bayridge had nothing to gain from Clinton, since Italians aren't given set-asides for their talented tenth. So they went with Bernie, who promised universal programs and redistributing wealth toward everyone at the middle and lower income level. As opposed to the working-class black/brown areas in Queens, Brooklyn, and the Bronx, who voted for the candidate that would continue to set aside elite spots for their ethnic groups -- Crooked Hillary.<br /><br />Again, you don't have to denigrate those Dem machine voters. Nobody is ever going to win an election -- primary or general -- with 100% of the vote. If some group is intractable, get as much as you can from them, but don't rely on them, and don't keep wasting your time there when it's clear you can't squeeze any more blood from that stone. Find a group who is more amenable to your message, and rack up your gains there.<br /><br />If the programs are universal, then it doesn't matter that working-class brown people in central Queens didn't vote for Bernie -- they'll still get the same goodies as those who did vote for him in Staten Island and Suffolk County.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-34454531660062261962019-08-27T02:47:21.426-04:002019-08-27T02:47:21.426-04:00Treating Southerners as WASPs is genetic determini...Treating Southerners as WASPs is genetic determinism, which I reject. The post is about ethnicity -- just being a literal white, Anglo-Saxon Protestant does not make one a WASP.<br /><br />The term refers only to those from the Northeast and its off-shoots out West -- they're a different ethnic group from white Southerners, because continental race according to DNA is not ethnicity. They come from a different geographical region, speak with a different language / dialect, follow different religious traditions, practice radically different kinship norms (no clan feuds in Yankeedom), and derive their subsistence from different material modes -- mercantile and financial, rather than plantation agriculture or the military.<br /><br />You know an easy way to tell if two groups are really the same ethnic group? Ask them both -- are you guys part of the same ethnic group? Yankees and Southerners treat each other like they come from different planets, and because ethnicity is socially constructed (both defined from within by the in-group, as well as who treats you as non-members of some out-group), that's all that matters.<br /><br />WASPs are those who have been the national-level elite since the founding of the nation (later joined by Jews). Do Southern whites strike you as the leaders of American culture, especially its elite institutions? Keep your eye on the ball here.<br /><br />Notice that there's no version of the word "race" in here. That's something that only the leftoids are inserting -- race science, measuring skulls, etc. (no discussion of such, aside from having to guess about Amber because she doesn't say who her people are, unlike the others who do).agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-86971055426305428832019-08-26T23:36:40.048-04:002019-08-26T23:36:40.048-04:00I think what Anna points out is an interesting asp...I think what Anna points out is an interesting aspect of your post. Puritanical protestant cultural reaction recurs in ever-changing forms. My problem is simply that you attribute great power and stability to ethnic/religious/racial identities. This analysis is at odds with the anti-idpol position. I find idpol to be an elite phenomena, period. As such, the main correlates to idpol-adherence are probably education and wealth.<br /><br />There is also mystic sociological reasoning. For example, regarding Indians: just because they come from a society with an intricate and unequal system of social stratification doesn't mean they would be particularly good at "gaming" the American one. In so far as they're able to, it reveals tangible material advantages had by middle class immigrants. I don't see how being born in an "unchanging" caste system would prime one to be able to rise easily in a capitalist American class system. And if so, how such a trait would pass on beyond the first generation.<br /><br />I'm not sure if personal anecdotes are useful, but I shed my vestiges of wokeness for two conscious reasons. 1) I became more overtly interested in socialism, but upon examining the identitarian and post-modern gunk passing as the current left, quickly grew disillusioned. I found it inherently incompatible with the core of socialist politics. 2) I didn't have the mental resilience required to continue credulously performing all the BS obeisances required to be "woke". Probably because I'm stagnant in life there was no use either, since all the virtue signalling is eminently practical.<br /><br />And so everything returns to material conditions...Basanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00994045157434847046noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-9887480099298739482019-08-26T22:33:33.623-04:002019-08-26T22:33:33.623-04:00Come for the ethnic list, stay for the material an...Come for the ethnic list, stay for the material analysis of Puritan wokeness.<br /><br />So far, looks like only Anna K. read the post all the way through, giving a good-faith response on Twitter (RT'ed by princess Aimee).<br /><br />And who says these art hoes ain't loyal?agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-4038153244466618572019-08-26T22:18:22.884-04:002019-08-26T22:18:22.884-04:00"My categories cannot be out of date if they&..."My categories cannot be out of date if they're striking such a chord"<br /><br />The neoliberal/Clintonite wing of the Democratic Party has been exploiting them for decades. Take Barbara Mikulski. <br /><br /> [T]he ethnic American also feels unappreciated for the contribution he makes to society. He resents the way the working class is looked down upon. In many instances he is treated like the machine he operates or the pencil he pushes. He is tired of being treated like an object of production. The public and private institutions have made him frustrated by their lack of response to his needs. At present he feels powerless in his daily dealings with and efforts to change them. Unfortunately, because of old prejudices and new fears, anger is generated against other minority groups rather than those who have power. What is needed is an alliance of white and black, white collar, blue collar and no collar based on mutual need, interdependence and respect, an alliance to develop the strategy for new kinds of community organization and political participation.<br /><br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Mikulski#Early_political_career<br /><br />What actually WOULD be interesting is someone explaining how the Clintons turned on a dime in 2016 and suddenly became (at least symbolically) pro-black, especially after running a racist campaign against Obama in 2008, and got away with it. <br /><br />How did Miss Kitchen Table Blue collar pro-ethnic Hillary of 2008 become the ultra woke Hillary of 2016? <br /><br />The neoliberal Democratic elites are kind of having it both ways. They're promoting identity politics even while they're crying out against them. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-12022438617220578422019-08-26T22:16:24.576-04:002019-08-26T22:16:24.576-04:00On the Puritan origin of wokeness, here's a su...On the Puritan origin of wokeness, here's a summary, since it's really a topic for another full post.<br /><br />Wokeness is not unique to 21st-century America -- it's a variation on a timeless and placeless theme. The British Empire had something similar during their imperial heyday (Victorian: stiff upper lip, and White Man's Burden), as did the Roman Empire at their height (2nd C. AD: Stoicism, and polytheistic tolerance + imperial cult).<br /><br />The function is social control -- to keep the commoners from getting too unruly, and to legitimate the elites. Isn't that needed for any society? Somewhat -- but especially so for a sprawling multi-ethnic empire whose leaders have soaring levels of wealth and power compared to the commoners.<br /><br />There are two aspects:<br /><br />1) Restraining libidinal desires for both the commoners (moral panics targeting urges of common folk), and the elites (self-denial, stiff upper lip, etc.). This keeps the mass of people from getting to rowdy and unruly to be governed by the elites. And it also legitimates the elites as being dispassionate altruistic stewards rather than greedy parasites.<br /><br />2) Promoting harmony among varying groups in a multi-ethnic empire. This means buying off elites from peripheral groups who normally wouldn't be influenced by the imperial core, if it weren't an empire. It's both material funneling of resources to such secondary elites, as well as cultural / symbolic like honoring their regional gods (polytheism) -- provided that everyone upholds the imperial cult religion. Without this buy-off, newcomer groups would chafe at being ruled by foreigners, and be a constant thorn in the side of the imperial core.<br /><br />Puritans in America were just the initial material elites -- representing the mercantile and financial sectors of society, not the agricultural sector or the military sector (Southern slaveowners and martial elites, who lost the material and cultural war against the mercantile / financial Yankees).<br /><br />The particular American form of wokeness is just a local version of the British imperial and Roman imperial ideology -- Stoicism and buying off exotic elites, to promote domestic social control and imperial integration.<br /><br />I reject the idealist / culturalist view that emphasizes the Puritans' control of the press and the academy (for a time, since overtaken by the other primary elite, Ashkenazi Jews). Control over cultural institutions stems from their material standing as the mercantile and financial elites, and their leading an empire toward integrating more and more exotic groups. The military may have conquered those groups in war, but the mercantile sector has to integrate them afterward, in peacetime, to keep the economic and political system well-oiled and harmonious.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-21813501289797398712019-08-26T21:58:02.857-04:002019-08-26T21:58:02.857-04:00The post already says that just about all groups a...The post already says that just about all groups are represented in the woketard camp (McElwee et al). That's not interesting, because it's not presence or absence -- but more represented, less represented. Even if it's only a minority of some group that are anti-woke, is it 30% or 0.3%?<br /><br />(Wokeism/Neoliberalism/Shitlibism I think if you really trace it back to its roots is opportunistic Democratic machine politicians cynically using the front loaded Southern primaries to hold off attacks to their own power. The "vote like black women" crowd are mostly Irish/Italian machine politicians coming out of the DLC and the reaction against McGovern. That's why the Southern primaries are so important but originally "Super Tuesday" was designed to limit the power of blacks and the antiwar movement. That's what actually gave us Joe Biden and the Clintons.) Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-28182290755450859502019-08-26T21:49:48.892-04:002019-08-26T21:49:48.892-04:00There are lots of WASPs in the woke camp -- and vi...There are lots of WASPs in the woke camp -- and virtually none willing to go against that.<br /><br />(Have you seen the video of Derrick Jensen drawing connections between queer studies and pedophilia? In any event, you're kind of doing a no true Scotsman fallacy here by excluding "Southern Whites." The South is by far the most WASP part of the country. Eliminating "southern whites" from the WASP category is stacking the deck. How many pure New England WASPs are even left these days?) <br /><br />"They stated how hostile the woke left is to Irish, Italians, and Catholics."<br /><br />(The woke left loves Andrew Cuomo, whom they supported over the WASP Cynthia Nixon. They also HATE Bernie with the heat of 1000 suns. My guess is there's a far more virulent strain of anti-semitism on the woke left than anti-Catholicism.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-13055162246965931412019-08-26T21:37:33.444-04:002019-08-26T21:37:33.444-04:00This misstates the claim here: "Some of the m...This misstates the claim here: "Some of the most fanatical "woke" leftists like Amanda Marcotte (white southerner) or Jessica Valenti (Italian) fit into your anti-woke ethnicities."<br /><br />It's not about some here or some there. But which groups are more likely -- not 100%, not 0% -- to produce anti-woke figures.<br /><br />The post already says that just about all groups are represented in the woketard camp (McElwee et al). That's not interesting, because it's not presence or absence -- but more represented, less represented. Even if it's only a minority of some group that are anti-woke, is it 30% or 0.3%?<br /><br />There are lots of WASPs in the woke camp -- and virtually none willing to go against that. There are some Irish in the woke camp, like McElwee, but there are also a shitload who are hostile to woke-ism. That's a major difference between WASPs and Irish (or Italians, Lebanese, etc.).<br /><br />Again, I'm not slotting anyone into anything -- Shialabeefsteak, and several of his commenters, brought this out into the open. They stated how hostile the woke left is to Irish, Italians, and Catholics. OK, let's see if that's true or not -- after looking into it, yes, that's true. Why? The explanation is mine, as are the practical implications discussed.<br /><br />It must be an open secret within the social media left itself, if it can be discussed like that by its own members, outside of DMs and group chats.<br /><br />My categories cannot be out of date if they're striking such a chord -- otherwise the reaction would be, "what's an Italian-American? we're all white / American / human / etc.". The argument is not essentialist if it repeatedly refers to Ellis Island and the Dem machine of ethnic patronage that sprung up at the time -- and the re-orientation of that machine of patronage away from those old ethnics (who are taken for granted), and toward newer ethnics.<br /><br />Something is either true or not -- it has nothing to do with who uses it as a "talking point," a dum-dum guilt-by-association objection. And as has been pointed out, right-wingers are fine with noticing and acting on these group differences -- if the ignorant left wants to continue being clueless and powerless, that's their problem.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-26619314936731859982019-08-26T21:21:50.073-04:002019-08-26T21:21:50.073-04:00I thought about Greenwald and Mate, but the criter...I thought about Greenwald and Mate, but the criteria were making regular and overt statements against woke-ism. They're anti-Russiagate, supportive of Red Scare, and perhaps privately they're against identity politics and treating Trump and Tucker as Nazi white nationalists posing an existential threat.<br /><br />I'm looking at those who are openly and regularly against woke BS. That doesn't mean everyone outside of this sample is a woketard. Either I don't know who they are, or they're only tacitly anti-woke.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-70015004641454324812019-08-26T21:07:42.593-04:002019-08-26T21:07:42.593-04:00By the way, @basantyagi is not Muslim. So that asp...By the way, @basantyagi is not Muslim. So that aspect of the hypothesis isn’t supported.Basanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00994045157434847046noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-19073591381771692892019-08-26T20:21:16.868-04:002019-08-26T20:21:16.868-04:00Personally I think you're forcing people into ...Personally I think you're forcing people into categories to confirm conclusions you've already decided on instead of looking at the facts and letting them speak for themselves. <br /><br />Some of the most fanatical "woke" leftists like Amanda Marcotte (white southerner) or Jessica Valenti (Italian) fit into your anti-woke ethnicities. Some Jews (Greenwald) fit into your "woke" elites. <br /><br />I also think your categories are wildly out of date. You're basically rehashing 1970s Michael Novak/Barbara Mikulski "white ethnic" essentialism without realizing that it was part of the right wing backlash that was the basis for Clintonism and the DLC. <br /><br />Also, who exactly fits cleanly into the "WASP" or "Ellis Island" category anymore? My parents were mixed WASPs/Polish and I'm pretty sure that was pretty much the norm. <br /><br />What might be interesting is how Puritanism was transformed into the ethos of the PMC. But I think you've gotten way too entangled in ethnic categories to see the forest through the trees. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-28775281290836456822019-08-26T20:21:09.303-04:002019-08-26T20:21:09.303-04:00Longer-term, sure, the goal is to transcend ethnic...Longer-term, sure, the goal is to transcend ethnicity and do only class, as I've detailed before comparing socialism (actual, not SJW-ism) to Christianity, destined to overcome the identity politics and imperial cult of the Roman Empire or the American Empire:<br /><br />http://akinokure.blogspot.com/2019/05/monotheistic-socialism-will-replace.html<br /><br />But here and now, you have to be aware of where you're going to maximize the return on your effort -- just as with Christianity, which did not find equal acceptance among all demographic groups. It was popular with Gentiles rather than Jews, Roman subjects rather than those of other empires (Persia, India, or the Northeastern part of Europe), urban rather than rural, and so on and so forth.<br /><br />Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles, did not waste time trying to convert Jews after he figured out that they were more interested in the Jesus movement as a thing for Jews only (exemplified by Peter and James, who organized in Jerusalem). And he didn't wander the countryside, but set up shop in urban places. Nor did he wander over the Rhine River, into Mesopotamia, etc.<br /><br />In the steady state, most people will be part of the system, but in the transitory state it's going to take one set of paths rather than another set -- through these groups, and not those other groups.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-7255381007651134992019-08-26T20:13:16.590-04:002019-08-26T20:13:16.590-04:00I'm not sure about Kilstein's case, I'...I'm not sure about Kilstein's case, I've only heard him on one podcast with Unauthorized Disclosure, on the very topic of needing to put class and empire over identity politics.<br /><br />(Not even remotely leftist, a fanatical pro-Bush neoconservative in the vein of Michelle Malkin.) Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-78116205363714273972019-08-26T20:08:30.808-04:002019-08-26T20:08:30.808-04:00As the only anti-woke entirely of Ashkenazi extrac...As the only anti-woke entirely of Ashkenazi extraction, this makes sense to me.paul_yieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02881402316033570560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-43285214838748052772019-08-26T20:00:34.547-04:002019-08-26T20:00:34.547-04:00And just about all the Jews on the left are woke-i...And just about all the Jews on the left are woke-ists. <br /><br />(Greenwald? Aaron Mate?) Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-67697601331230537832019-08-26T19:40:43.686-04:002019-08-26T19:40:43.686-04:00"class relations within (yes, within, not bet..."class relations within (yes, within, not between) those ethnic categories matter a lot more as far as competition over material resources is concerned"<br /><br />That's true for an individual's list of priorities that they want politicians to address.<br /><br />But all politics is coalitional. It's right there in the NYC data on who voted for whom in the 2016 Dem primary:<br /><br />https://www.gothamgazette.com/6308-takeaways-from-new-york-presidential-<br /><br />Even controlling for class, the white ethnics were more favorable toward Bernie -- and then Trump -- whereas the protected minorities (or those aspiring to such, like recent upper-caste Indians) were more lukewarm toward Bernie, and now are preferring Warren over Bernie.<br /><br />And of course, the poorest and least-white districts in New York turned out for Clinton in the primary, since that's their role in top-down machine politics.<br /><br />You may wish that there weren't an ethnically organized system of patronage, but there is -- anyone looking to improve the system has to grapple with that. The neolib Establishment already is -- they're doing away with Ellis Islanders as protected minorities, taking them for granted, and reaching out to new waves of immigrants as aspiring protected elites.<br /><br />That radically changes how eager the old Ellis Island groups will be to put skin in the game for Bernie or other lefty realigners. They were fine with Bernie, but already defected to Trump in the general against the Dem machine candidate.<br /><br />And it changes how eager the new minorities will be to pursue anti-Establishment realignment. They're already protected (Af-Ams) or are already busy trying to carve out their own niche within the elites (upper-caste Indians, Hispanics, etc.). Those who are protected by the system will be more resistant to a radical change to it -- and like it or not, the system protects them at the level of groups (a seat reserved for the Af-Ams, a seat reserved for the Brahmins, etc.).<br /><br />If you just look at individuals, you'll cast a wide net that isn't going to scoop up as much as you think. You have to find out who is willing, even eager, to join your coalition -- and be aware of where you're likely to find an icy reception.<br /><br />That's why you have to know about Italians in Staten Island, Irish and Italians in Suffolk County, Poles in Wilkes-Barre, and so on. Otherwise you don't know where the crucial pressure-points are, and will spend too much time preaching to the converted -- or worse, to places that are solid locks for the Dem machine.<br /><br />I'm not saying you have to have an overtly ethnic pride appeal to Italians in Staten Island. But you do have to be aware of who they are, what they want, what their history is for Establishment vs. realigners is, where their group fits in within the group-oriented hierarchy (again, whether or not you like the hierarchy having carve-outs for groups rather than individuals).<br /><br />If you target two neighborhoods of equal class, one in Staten Island and one in non-white areas of Queens, only one is going to be easy going for Bernie realigners -- SI. That doesn't mean you're thinking less of the black/brown Dem machine voters as people, or that you're going to cut them off from universal programs once you get Bernie through the primary and the White House by calling on the Italian SI cavalry.<br /><br />I mean, you're not going to cut off right-wing Dutch farmers in Texas from universal healthcare, despite their not voting for Bernie in either the primary or general. But it would be silly to target that group for organizing a coalition to get an anti-idpol materialist like Bernie to triumph over Clinton, Warren, Biden, and the rest.<br /><br />Categorizing people into groups does not lead to material racial exclusion, let alone genocide.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-49242175179699634092019-08-26T19:31:53.504-04:002019-08-26T19:31:53.504-04:00I clicked on the one you called "genius"...I clicked on the one you called "genius". Yeah, he's completely ridiculous. Most of whom I saw seemed bemused.Anon202noreply@blogger.com