tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post7357911175164156855..comments2024-03-27T23:28:20.274-04:00Comments on Face to Face: Forgiving vs. belittling satiresagnostichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-55429198270526033542014-03-26T00:10:00.981-04:002014-03-26T00:10:00.981-04:00I think the lovingly mocking humor of the early-90...I think the lovingly mocking humor of the early-90's Simpsons is a great example of this. I can never keep straight what counts as "satire" and what doesn't, but it definitely mocks its own themes even as it adores them.<br /><br />When the Simpsons gets preachy and unfunny is when it takes on political themes directly (usually via Lisa). It loses its innate fondness for Homer, Bart and the other "bad" characters and becomes a way for the show to simply berate un-PC people. Not surprisingly, these episodes become much much more common in the late 90's and early 2000's to the point that there were episodes on homo marriage (always good), border security (always bad), and the entire movie was about environmentalist crusading, complete with noble Eskimos who teach the Simpsons how to live at one with nature. Totally unwatchable, and unsympathetic.Master Dogennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-23747001243057777652012-08-01T19:30:20.045-04:002012-08-01T19:30:20.045-04:00The original Scary Movie was made by different peo...The original Scary Movie was made by different people than the later " Movie" ones that tried to ride on its coat-tails. I believe some of the Airplane/Police Squad guys were involved in Scary Movie.<br /><br />The first "Casino Royale" parody of James Bond novels came out before any actual James Bond novels. And Austin Powers rather lampshaded its debt to the earlier "Flynt" Bond parodies with James Coburn. Which reminds me that "Murder by Death" seems to take place in the same universe as "The Cheap Detective".<br /><br />Hot Fuzz was indeed a great movie. But they originally intended to have a romantic interest for the protagonist, then dropped that character and kept much of the dialogue, which comes out a bit strange. Another great bit of limey satire is "Four Lions", whose creator was previously known for lampooning the paedophilia panic with his show "Brass Eye".TGGPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11017651009634767649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-78424749784484207052012-07-24T19:42:25.510-04:002012-07-24T19:42:25.510-04:00"enalian satire, named after the Roman satiri..."enalian satire, named after the Roman satirist Juvenal (late 1st century - early 2nd century CE), is a type of satire that is more contemptuous and abrasive than the Horatian. Juvenalian satire addresses social evil through scorn, outrage, and savage ridicule. This form is often pessimistic, characterized by irony, sarcasm, moral indignation and personal invective, with less emphasis on humour. Strongly polarized political satire is often Juvenalian.""<br /><br />In this case, though, I think the blog author is talking about satire of movie genre forms, not politics.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-47276217884341901232012-07-24T19:23:25.669-04:002012-07-24T19:23:25.669-04:00"I don't think that's the intention, ..."I don't think that's the intention, to say that."<br /><br />I just thought it was lame. Instead of getting the beautiful princess, the message is that Shrek should accept her as a green ogre. I may be reading too much into it though.<br /><br />"But doesn't this begin with the Daltons?"<br /><br />Never saw the Dalton ones. From what I've heard, I think the Dalton movies at least tried some amount of parody. the Daniel Craig movies essentially abandon any element of satire whatsoever. <br /><br />Some other examples would be the remakes of the Jason and Freddy movies. The Jason remake has over-the-top nudity and violence, which quite consciously mocks the older movies. <br /><br />The Freddy remake wasn't belittling, but it was overly serious. They give Freddy an elaborate backstory about how he molested the main characters, make him into a typical serial killer rather than a monster. The original first two Nightmare movies were much scarier.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-57828410032496758602012-07-24T15:13:11.361-04:002012-07-24T15:13:11.361-04:00It is a cruel satire. I know grown women who still...<i>It is a cruel satire. I know grown women who still cherish that scene from Beauty and the Beast; yet the implication in Shrek is that they were shallow and naive for doing so. I can only imagine some embittered nerd conceiving Shrek, with some hag producer approving it.</i><br /><br />I don't think that's the intention, to say that.<br /><br /><i>Unlike the awful "Scary Movie" franchise, "Shaun" actually works as a zombie/horror film. </i><br /><br />Hot Fuzz is pretty good as well, I'd say.<br /><br /><i>The later Bond movies became over-serious, abandoning satire altogether.</i><br /><br />But doesn't this begin with the Daltons?<br /><br />..<br /><br />From a UK perspective, we tend to associate biting satire with the 80s and the Fatcha years - Spitting Image and lots of angry left wing comics. There's certainly a lot of satire against subcultures around in the present British zeitgeist (just read the comments on the Guardian website and you'll see legion bitter leftwinger with English degrees trying to cram elaborate satires into a single sentence) - the prominent satirists in the UK are probably Charlie Brooker, Chris Morris, Armando Ianucci, Jesse Armstrong and Simon Blackwell. But it's hard for me to say that we actually have more satire.<br /><br />I don't really see much difference in the satire really, just that it's oriented perhaps more towards the uncool and less towards the powerful. Class comedy satirising social climbers seems not to be a prominent genre in the UK any more - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_humour#British_class_system - that seems to just stop after the early 90s.<br /><br />I feel like we've always been a much more satirical culture than the US, that said.<br /><br />What do you think about this agnostic:<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satire#Horatian_vs_Juvenalian<br /><br /><i>"Satirical literature can commonly be categorized as either Horatian or Juvenalian,[19] although the two are not entirely mutually exclusive.<br /><br />Horatian satire, named for the Roman satirist, Horace (65 BCE – 8 BCE), playfully criticizes some social vice through gentle, mild, and light-hearted humour. It directs wit, exaggeration, and self-deprecating humour toward what it identifies as folly, rather than evil.[citation needed] Horatian satire's sympathetic tone is common in modern society.[citation needed]<br /><br />...<br /><br />Juvenalian satire, named after the Roman satirist Juvenal (late 1st century - early 2nd century CE), is a type of satire that is more contemptuous and abrasive than the Horatian. Juvenalian satire addresses social evil through scorn, outrage, and savage ridicule. This form is often pessimistic, characterized by irony, sarcasm, moral indignation and personal invective, with less emphasis on humour. Strongly polarized political satire is often Juvenalian."</i>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-6397038304135208892012-07-24T14:14:01.939-04:002012-07-24T14:14:01.939-04:00"South Park" and "Shaun of the Dead..."South Park" and "Shaun of the Dead" are two hugely popular satires from the falling crime era that I would describe as "forgiving". Unlike the awful "Scary Movie" franchise, "Shaun" actually works as a zombie/horror film. I would also argue that a number of recent slasher remakes -- "I Spit on Your Grave," "The Hills Have Eyes," Last House on the Left" -- show real affection for the genre.Chiphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03411363107558366631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-64686857383915578312012-07-24T09:57:25.906-04:002012-07-24T09:57:25.906-04:00As far as in an earlier period, the only thing I c...As far as in an earlier period, the only thing I can think of right now are the James Bond movies. They were parodies of earlier spy tales which took themselves too seriously. The villains were ridiculous and the sexual innuendos over-the-top - but despite this, the movie still delivered. People were still delighted at Ursula Andress walking out of the water, or at the strange ways that Bond villains would kill people.<br /><br />The later Bond movies became over-serious, abandoning satire altogether. In Goldeneye, the villain was a realistic former disgruntled agent, left adrift from the end of the Cold War. (Contrast this with the demented nerds who were the bad guys in the earlier movies). Could have been an interesting concept for another movie, but not what was expected from 007. The female heroine was a traditional damsel in distress, not a sex kitten. And the female bad guy, "Onetop", was mean, aggressive, and, predictable for the era, numbingly overt. <br /><br />The ones with Daniel Craig are even worse, totally devoid of humor or playfulness.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-74869460041226312822012-07-24T09:22:20.727-04:002012-07-24T09:22:20.727-04:00In the movie Shrek, it turns out that the beautifu...In the movie Shrek, it turns out that the beautiful princess is actually a green ogre. When Shrek kisses her to turn her back, she remains an ogre. This is an obvious parody of the closing scene of (1992) Beauty and the Beast, where the heroine kisses the Beast and he transforms into a stunningly handsome blonde man. <br /><br />It is a cruel satire. I know grown women who still cherish that scene from Beauty and the Beast; yet the implication in Shrek is that they were shallow and naive for doing so. I can only imagine some embittered nerd conceiving Shrek, with some hag producer approving it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-34586295583046680902012-07-24T08:27:21.565-04:002012-07-24T08:27:21.565-04:00Huh, just a few days ago I saw a link on the MSN h...Huh, just a few days ago I saw a link on the MSN homepage:<br /><br />"Cheesy 80s movies worth seeing"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com