tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post6201030057070984990..comments2024-03-28T18:59:21.172-04:00Comments on Face to Face: Are hyper-liberals secretly ultra-conservative?agnostichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-28780530760310225472015-11-04T21:21:44.511-05:002015-11-04T21:21:44.511-05:00You're misusing "authoritarian" to m...You're misusing "authoritarian" to mean vindictive, nagging, shaming, harassing, persecuting, etc., which members of a middle school clique do all the time without having any authority over one another.<br /><br />Hierarchy / authority -- same thing.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-14674780771190083112015-11-04T18:26:23.518-05:002015-11-04T18:26:23.518-05:00"I agree with the general thrust of this arti..."I agree with the general thrust of this article, particularly the point about most left-liberals being anti-authoritarian. Many leftists organisations are so egalitarian that they don't even have workable organisation structures."<br /><br />The mistake here is in conflating hierarchy with authority. They are not really the same thing, although they obviously relate to each other and overlap in many circumstances. <br /><br />An organization or society may be somewhat egalitarian and democratic in many respects. Yet it may also be highly authoritarian in persecuting dissidents and those that offend the group norms and consensus. Similarly, an organization or society may be quite hierarchical in terms of having different orders of status and responsibility. Yet it may not be particularly authoritarian if there are checks and balances in the system. <br /><br />Leftists tend to be more authoritarian than they are hierarchical. Suppose an individual is confronted by an angry mob of SJWs because they have offended some PC shibboleth. Typically the organization will be fairly egalitarian in terms of structure, without much of a clear chain of command. Yet they will be highly authoritarian in terms of pursuing those that offend accepted views. Misanthropistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-86114518598316577042015-10-25T09:50:25.665-04:002015-10-25T09:50:25.665-04:00Creative people are also more likely to be mentall...Creative people are also more likely to be mentally off kilter and are often sympathetic to misfits, being misfits themselves frequently. There's a reason they sometimes go nuts. Actors aren't as purely creative as musicians; but they are outgoing and attention seeking. So while musicians can be nutty, actors are more prone to fits of narcissism.<br /><br />I heard an interview with a Sci-fi author who said that he's dealt with hallucinations much of his life. But he was able to treat them as a natural part of his identity which prevented overwhelming paranoia and the drugs or commitment needed for full blown craziness.Ferylnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-46783141451050402122015-10-24T23:43:57.317-04:002015-10-24T23:43:57.317-04:00I agree with the general thrust of this article, p...I agree with the general thrust of this article, particularly the point about most left-liberals being anti-authoritarian. Many leftists organisations are so egalitarian that they don't even have workable organisation structures. The liberal-left has also undermined traditional education because it believes teachers should be seen as facilitators rather than experts - to recognise experts would be to acknowledge that some people's opinions are more important than others - and far left post modernists reject such an idea.<br /><br />However, there are many areas in which leftists do feel superior to those on the right. Most musicians for example, are on the left, and many do consider themselves superior to right-wingers who are generally inferior in musical ability. <br /><br />Similarly, in raw IQ terms most leftists have above average verbal intelligence, and do so they do feel superior to inarticulate working class populists who call up talk radio and ask for greater immigration control and capital punishment for murderers and pedophiles. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-17193862046354084632015-10-20T08:24:41.954-04:002015-10-20T08:24:41.954-04:00Brilliant as ever, thanks folksBrilliant as ever, thanks folksBumbling Americanhttp://twitter.com/BumblingUSAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-7387019072688816682015-10-19T17:16:33.849-04:002015-10-19T17:16:33.849-04:00"We are the new Americana,
High on legal mari..."We are the new Americana,<br />High on legal marijuana..."<br /><br />I assume the "New Americana" refers to young people who didn't participate in the political processes that resulted in the legalization of marijuana in two U.S. states. (Or the decriminalization or legalization on a limited basis, as in other states, depending on what she means by 'legal'). I doubt very many busted their asses campaigning door-to-door, sacrificing to make financial contributions to pro-weed lobbies, etc.; and they would have been too young to cast ballots. They are probably also quite divorced from the effort of growing and harvesting the sort-of herb, the consumption of which they apparently regard as an earned right or achievement. Their claims to being edgy drug users are an entitlement derived from earlier generations' labor, not some cultural achievement of Millennials themselves.<br /><br />Also, what happened to metaphor / hidden meaning in lyrics? Green Day began as one giant weed reference, but explicit references to the drug are few in their early albums' song lyrics. Whereas Halsey places "marijuana" in the song's hook. I feel sorry for the kids who regard this uncreative marketing ploy as edgy or culturally substantial.Petrochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02217119917847445017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-50266446150670243282015-10-19T16:13:18.493-04:002015-10-19T16:13:18.493-04:00"Messing around with vowels makes it hard to ..."Messing around with vowels makes it hard to understand what the words are, and it has taken two different forms, both starting in the '90s:"<br /><br />http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PerishingAltRockVoice<br /><br />Keep in mind that the article correctly notes that the practice wasn't unheard of in the 80's (particularly among Brit artists). Seems to fit into the whole decadence/unraveling/nihilism vibe that the West has exuded since the 80's. Yeah, people were sometimes critical of these things in the 80's, but the reason there was growing criticism in the first place is because rootlessness/striving/glibness etc. were becoming worse. <br /><br />I don't think the Goth thing really existed before the 80's, and only criminals had tattoos and piercings before the 80's. These are obvious signs of alienation and apathy. People may have been naive to some degree about drugs/promiscuity etc. in the 70's, but people essentially were still on the same page. You know, camaraderie, loyalty, people more or less sharing the same values and goals. By the early 90's the social fabric was so shredded that goth/emo/nihilist posturing were reaching dangerous levels. And it's only gotten worse since then. Look at all the artists who only go out in public dressed in black. Yuck. This fetishizing of menacing aesthetics didn't exist in the 40's-70's. Ferylnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-69342564507811938322015-10-19T15:54:29.823-04:002015-10-19T15:54:29.823-04:00"Apropos nothing, I heard this on the radio t..."Apropos nothing, I heard this on the radio the other day and realized the music industry exists only to feed Agnostic blogposts<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=b-eYbUVZedY<br /><br />The video gets across the millennial vacuity even better--apocalyptic larping, self-dramatization etc."<br /><br />People typically check out of pop culture in their late 20's. Obviously, this garbage is supposed to appeal primarily (does it?) to people born in the last 25 or so years.<br /><br />While Gen X and very early Millennials (outside of a minority of middle aged striver/hipster idiots who affect to care about modern pop culture) can rightfully feel proud about not buying into 2010's pop culture, this sort of disconnect would still happen regardless of whether the culture was any good or not.<br /><br />Most early Boomers swear that the music of the 60's and early 70's is better than anything from the disco or MTV era. They're obviously dead wrong but since their brains and core sensibilities stopped developing by the mid 70's, you can't convince them to give later music a fair shake. We're not talking about aesthetic evaluation as much as we are generational ownership. People naturally tend to feel the most pride in whatever was popular when they were teens or near teens. Silents and early Boomers claimed that MTV was damaging brains. Well, it wasn't made for such smug and out of touch twats anyway.<br /><br />Anyway, let's be grateful that some people can transcend the reflexive navel gazing of "this is my generation's stuff" and appreciate the good stuff, even if came before (or after) their youth.Ferylnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-34579933508408849422015-10-19T15:34:24.799-04:002015-10-19T15:34:24.799-04:00She's doing what I call "vowel gargling,&...She's doing what I call "vowel gargling," where the vowels are shifted around because random / unique / expectations blown.<br /><br />Messing around with vowels makes it hard to understand what the words are, and it has taken two different forms, both starting in the '90s:<br /><br />1) Heavy "melisma," where the proper vowel is sung, but going through a wide range of pitches, and perhaps inserting a bunch of dipthongs. Think of Whitney Houston, Mariah Carey, Christina Aguilera, etc. "And ayyy-ee-yay-ee-yay will always love you-oo-oo-oo-oo". This comes from those who can sing well, but want to show off, mostly in R&B songs.<br /><br />2) No pitch embellishment, but using a different vowel from the standard pronunciation -- not even a non-standard dialect, but something idiosyncratic. It comes from those who can't sing well -- or who can but don't want to show off their pipes -- and try to score unique look-at-me points by blowing your expectations about how words should be pronounced, mostly in alternative songs.<br /><br />Vowel-space is large and continuously variable, so the changes may be subtle, but if they're used over and over you can just hear the pronunciation being off. And if it's a major shift in vowels, you'll really hear it.<br /><br />In "New Americana," there's a line that begins with "survival of the richest". "Richest" has two vowels, both the same, the short "i" like in "hit". But she pronounces the second one as a dipthong like "eye" -- "survival of the rich-ayst". At first I thought she was saying, "Survival of the rich, I [something something]". That one is jarringly off, but her pronunciation throughout is only a little more normal and intelligible.<br /><br />She also makes use of the "emo gasp" at the end of a word that ends in a vowel, I think every line of the chorus.<br /><br />She seems to be channeling Alanis Morissette, who was even more promiscuous with vowels and emo-gasping. But for Alanis, it was part of her larger persona of a manic-depressive. Halsey's pitch is so flat, and her rhythm so halting, that the drama-queen-y vowel pronunciations and emo-gasping come off as a great big put-on. It's clear she's a robotic lowwww-energy Millennial, and is just LARP-ing as a manic Gen X-er.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-85479722515386443972015-10-19T08:13:01.397-04:002015-10-19T08:13:01.397-04:00lol terrific
What is that vocal style she's u...lol terrific<br /><br />What is that vocal style she's using? It's well beyond "fry" on the intentionally off-putting spectrumBumbling Americanhttp://twitter.com/BumblingUSAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-88883912436620977192015-10-18T23:32:36.035-04:002015-10-18T23:32:36.035-04:00Recently, she produced a tribute to Jaden Smith
I...<i>Recently, she produced a tribute to Jaden Smith</i><br /><br />I think I heard that one, "Kiss-raped by Dad, Now a Tranny"agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-71729113002983576112015-10-18T22:56:22.043-04:002015-10-18T22:56:22.043-04:00As for "New Americana"...
TFW transgres...As for "New Americana"...<br /><br />TFW transgressive subversion becomes establishment triumphalism<br /><br />That part about gay marriage where they sample Pink Floyd's rebel anthem and the minister goes, "All in all, you're just another dick through the stall".<br /><br />BRB cross-checking BuzzFeed headlines and RhymeZone.com to come up with the next line of the chorus.<br /><br />FML our generation is so deprived of life experience that we can only communicate through name-checking pop culture references.<br /><br />LOL weak invisible text-necks pretending they're warriors.<br /><br />End of the video: MFW playing outside with peers turns out to have been just a bad dream.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-12260159307936784992015-10-18T22:48:18.395-04:002015-10-18T22:48:18.395-04:00Halsey... just, wow.
Bisexual, biploar (but I rep...Halsey... just, wow.<br /><br />Bisexual, biploar (but I repeat myself), biracial. BTW, she looks a little too trans-racial for someone who's "father" has medium black skin. Her parents:<br /><br />https://twitter.com/halsey/status/457567824043843585<br /><br />We may have found a rare case of the black man being the cuck rather than the cucker.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-89518671161864010512015-10-18T16:02:11.691-04:002015-10-18T16:02:11.691-04:00Oh man that is some gay-ass shit. "We America...Oh man that is some gay-ass shit. "We America now, homofags get married and some states have legal weed, don't you just feel old?" set to sweaty overproduced Hunger Games LARPING. To top it all off the music and lyrics both seemed like ripoffs of the song Royals, which was actually kind of fun for the way it mocked nigger rap shenanigans. It's like the musical equivalent of this classic piece:<br /><br />http://elitedaily.com/life/50-things-millennials-make-corporate-america-uncomfortable/758330/NZTnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-54709034983093451452015-10-18T08:23:34.384-04:002015-10-18T08:23:34.384-04:00Apropos nothing, I heard this on the radio the oth...Apropos nothing, I heard this on the radio the other day and realized the music industry exists only to feed Agnostic blogposts<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=b-eYbUVZedY<br /><br />The video gets across the millennial vacuity even better--apocalyptic larping, self-dramatization etc.Bumbling Americanhttp://twitter.com/BumblingUSAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-18719997653477782042015-10-13T02:30:23.374-04:002015-10-13T02:30:23.374-04:00"The left don't really believe in women&#..."The left don't really believe in women's rights, hiv+ rights, minority rights or whatever. These are just temporary cudgels to achieve their real goal of perpetual revolution and destruction of the existing order. When one group stops grinding the axe, they just find another group. It is very much a movable feast." <br /><br />Maybe I'm not as cynical about you about the good faith of their beliefs. The ever shifting victim fest is core feature I agree.Andrewnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-48879589540017281612015-10-13T02:13:44.797-04:002015-10-13T02:13:44.797-04:00"Misanthropist, you really think they tolerat..."Misanthropist, you really think they tolerate whites saying something hateful vs non-whites? They shut down free speech, or at least try to when they can."<br /><br />Of course they don't tolerate whites saying things that are hateful or racist in the same way they tolerate non-whites saying such things. Where the hell do you get the idea that I think otherwise?<br /><br />The point I was making is simply that who the left regard as "oppressors" or "oppressed", and the fact that they are authoritarian and hostile to opposing views, are very much separate issues. So it doesn't really help understand things much to just say 'well, they oppose free speech for this group as they regard them as baddies'. Every political flavor will tend to have groups that they are less sympathetic too, but they will not necessarily use the law to shut down their views. Disliking certain groups and opposing free speech are separate issues. <br /><br />The left don't really believe in women's rights, gay rights, minority rights or whatever. These are just temporary cudgels to achieve their real goal of perpetual revolution and destruction of the existing order. When one group stops grinding the axe, they just find another group. It is very much a movable feast. Misanthropistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-38068484198253447572015-10-13T01:49:26.194-04:002015-10-13T01:49:26.194-04:00Misanthropist, you really think they tolerate whit...Misanthropist, you really think they tolerate whites saying something hateful vs non-whites? They shut down free speech, or at least try to when they can. I disagree that they decided to abandon the working class because they dissapointed the Left. Rather, it was that other victim groups were seen as less privileged to the white, male, working class. The left loves the Irish because they're seen as a prototype victim class, as well as blacks. I think the focus on other victim groups was inevitable, because as you say, who is the most oppressed shifts.Andrewnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-75666793241759028042015-10-12T23:52:19.588-04:002015-10-12T23:52:19.588-04:00"They were never for a united left that would..."They were never for a united left that would focus equally on class plus identity politics -- aside from a few far-left folks, but the typical feminist, black rights advocate, etc., wanted to get women into corporate boardrooms, get blacks into elected office, and so on. That is, to keep the class structure the same, but give representation to groups who usually aren't at the top of the pyramid."<br /><br />True. But this trend was exacerbated by the end of the Cold War and collapse of communism. The left largely responded by accepting that the broader goal of equality in economic outcomes among the population is untenable. But they became even more attached to the idea of equal outcomes among other demographic groups, such as racial groups or gender. Affirmative action and equal representation for women in male-dominated occupations, ditto for whites and blacks. The class aspect was dropped, while the focus on race, gender and others became more pronounced. <br /><br />Communism didn't die. It simply morphed further into cultural Marxism. Ideas such as engineering equal outcomes between men and women in the labour market are pure communism. And it is no more sustainable to generate equal outcomes between groups that are made different through eons of natural selection than it is to generate equal outcomes among the broader population. <br />Misanthropistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-71766184336991394762015-10-12T22:48:22.713-04:002015-10-12T22:48:22.713-04:00"Identity politics blew up circa 1970, immedi..."Identity politics blew up circa 1970, immediately and steadily crowding out the focus on class."<br /><br />Right, middle aged Silents wanted to strike a blow for advancing the cause of whoever they felt was left out in the cold by the powerful G.I. machine. They weren't thrilled about conforming to the G.I. ethic which they found repressive and bland. The Silents presumed that every person ought to spend more time reflecting on their place and their purpose; surely G.I. Mom's tired of domestic duties and G.I. Dads must've felt some unease about their Great Projects, right? Silents were never going to be too concerned with class issues; they never were into us vs. them battles. Besides, most of them respected the wealthy and most blue collar types did well in Post WW2 America. Why assume that the rich and powerful might one day turn on the lower classes? It offended Silents, this idea of stereotyping or expecting bad faith from a group. <br />They wanted every person to think of themselves of unique and capable, regardless of social status. Give the rich a break, maybe you ought to work harder on yourself instead of rudely declaring war on an entire class.<br /><br />Eventually, as the Boomers gained influence in the late 70's/80's, the diversity drive that started as well-intentioned but misguided openly became a vehicle for division and base careerism and greed.<br /><br />Silents wanted more voices to be heard, and were usually willing to listen. They became considerate to a fault, in fact. Boomers, meanwhile, thought of everything as a big contest. If a person of any type wanted to use diversity as a means to beat the competition, more power to 'em.<br /><br />When you have two consecutive generations of influential people who don't value steadfast team oriented production, well, we get the mess we have right now. Silents fear being thought of as boring or close minded, Boomers hate the idea of settling for less when they could strive to their graves. Even if I die, my kids will be fighting long after.Ferylnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-75699715916696482612015-10-12T21:43:47.487-04:002015-10-12T21:43:47.487-04:00"They were never for a united left that would..."They were never for a united left that would focus equally on class plus identity politics -- aside from a few far-left folks, but the typical feminist, black rights advocate, etc., wanted to get women into corporate boardrooms, get blacks into elected office, and so on. That is, to keep the class structure the same, but give representation to groups who usually aren't at the top of the pyramid."<br /><br />That captures what I feel but had a hard time expressing here. Basically, it's about either concerning yourself with you and only the things that immediately affect you, or it's putting the community/nation as a whole before you.<br /><br />For example, during the revival of superficial conservatism in the 80's, much was made about Boomers having and protecting families after they selfishly avoided such things in the 70's. Yet, bitching about rock lyrics and violent crime was less about keeping the community wholesome as much as it was keeping bad influences away from one's children. Boomers never really cared for the long term greater good; they just wanted to arrogantly fine tune every aspect of their children's environment so that their children would be able to crush the competition. Doesn't get much more uneighborly and un-civic than that.Ferylnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-35777421034197970992015-10-12T21:26:27.289-04:002015-10-12T21:26:27.289-04:00"Labor and PC were never a tightly knit famil..."Labor and PC were never a tightly knit family, so it's misleading to frame PC slander of working-class people as dysfunctional family drama, or betrayal among former confreres."<br /><br />I don't think I suggested that labor and PC were ever a tightly knit family. The point is that in the past the left were somewhat more pro-labor and not as pro-PC. They then became more pro-PC and not quite as pro-labor. The two constituencies were always uneasy allies. <br /><br />It is human nature that the erstwhile ally that is seen to have let the team down or become a turncoat is despised more than the original designated enemy. So the traditional white working class is actually despised more than big business. Misanthropistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-48692483913799658902015-10-12T21:12:05.095-04:002015-10-12T21:12:05.095-04:00Agnostic, the envy I refer to is not really that o...Agnostic, the envy I refer to is not really that of the real outcasts or those on the lowest rung in status. It is generally the envy of those that are strivers who want to get an edge over their competition. <br /><br />For example, it is often the case that proposed policies such as increasing taxes (but only for the very highest income earners) are not really designed to appeal to the poor, or even much of the middle class. They are largely designed to appeal to upper-middle class liberals, who are often competing for positional goods such as property, good school places etc. with the more wealthy. i.e. those who are likely in the top 20% economically, but not part of the top 1%. I know many of these striving, professional leftists personally.<br /><br />It is true that envy is generally something people feel towards those who are in their general social milieu, but who have something they don't have. A homeless person with no money probably doesn't spend all their time envying the super wealthy. They more likely envy those they come in contact with who have a few dollars, a place to sleep or a regular meal. <br /><br />The point is that leftists are generally not motivated by genuine concern for those less fortunate. They simply despise those who have something more than they do. Misanthropistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-85292933027217481232015-10-12T21:01:00.165-04:002015-10-12T21:01:00.165-04:00"The whole modern culture of political correc..."The whole modern culture of political correctness and identity politics is in many ways an elitist revenge against the traditional working class for having let the side down."<br /><br />It's not so much vindictive as it is a straightforward elitist will to power.<br /><br />Identity politics blew up circa 1970, immediately and steadily crowding out the focus on class. They were never for a united left that would focus equally on class plus identity politics -- aside from a few far-left folks, but the typical feminist, black rights advocate, etc., wanted to get women into corporate boardrooms, get blacks into elected office, and so on. That is, to keep the class structure the same, but give representation to groups who usually aren't at the top of the pyramid.<br /><br />Transforming the left from a populist into an elitist movement was one sign of the times, going from getting-along and accommodation to me-first status-striving. Of course working class people were going to decline in influence under such a trend. That was the fate of any movement that was group-first rather than me-first.<br /><br />Labor and PC were never a tightly knit family, so it's misleading to frame PC slander of working-class people as dysfunctional family drama, or betrayal among former confreres.<br /><br />The two sides were always competitors, and in the me-first status-striving climate the identity politics side was destined to win, and the unions and civic-oriented churches were destined to lose.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-82141961981389516562015-10-12T20:42:57.578-04:002015-10-12T20:42:57.578-04:00and who can forget "Who's Gonna Take you ...and who can forget "Who's Gonna Take you Home"?, from the 80s. watch the music video, and you can see how much more sympathetic attitudes were.<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuZA6qiJVfUCurtisnoreply@blogger.com