tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post4551431872337779813..comments2024-03-28T21:56:51.675-04:00Comments on Face to Face: Persona contests: The next development in status competitionagnostichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-12977755810200227232015-11-23T05:30:42.775-05:002015-11-23T05:30:42.775-05:00It seems more generational to me. Poor Boomer wome...It seems more generational to me. Poor Boomer women did not turn to lifestyle pursuits that suited their budget, or crafting elaborate personas of "who I am as a mother". They're still workaholics, just ones whose career-oriented striving didn't earn them great wealth.<br /><br />There are also career-striving Silents and Boomers who reach the top of their field without earning tons of income, such as professors. They won't leave their high-status position even if they haven't published anything major in two decades. Hell, even if they're caught engaging in fraud like Marc Hauser, they shuffle themselves into a second-best academic position, regardless of the income it pays.<br /><br />Miley Cyrus, Kendall Jenner, Justin Bieber -- all these Millennial celebrities are not really striving in their careers, which they seem to view as a means toward the end of winning the persona competition. They want to attract the largest following of fans (song sales, concert attendance, Instagram followers) by crafting a persona that is cooler than anyone else's.<br /><br />It's similar to the Gen X investment bankers and BIGLAW drones, who are well aware that they won't be running the banks or law firms (which are being squatted on by careerist Silents and Boomers). Even though they make huge incomes, they treat it as fuel for their lifestyle striving -- getting into the right nightclub, ordering bottle service, and generally living the baller lifestyle that was satirized on The Leveraged Sell-Out blog.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-49325509220760343102015-11-22T23:28:30.775-05:002015-11-22T23:28:30.775-05:00Agnostic,
You notice how important the relations...Agnostic, <br /><br />You notice how important the relationship of money is to your three types of striving, (career=rich old people, lifestyle=middle aged not-real-rich people, lifestyle= poor millennials), I wonder if you have considered the possibility that these are not characteristics of different generations so much as they are characteristics of different social status? <br /><br />For example, Miley Cyrus has the money of a careerist CEO but could anyone imagine her beyond the level of a poor millenial? Her Instagrammed photos are telling, in that she never has the kitschy posts of shopping for kale juice or whatever nonsense. Nor is she pictured sitting in ivory towers shaking hands with record label CEOs.<br /><br />Color me skeptical that this is a generational phenomenon. The likely explanation is that you and I are ageing to understand our own place in the social pecking order (or our lack of place in the pecking order). We simply don't have the money to get a seat at the starbucks table and/or have too much sense to wear that mask. The social dilemma is that the table exists nonetheless and we must participate to level up.Grithttp://gritartisan.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-91336185631546856762015-11-14T01:59:57.263-05:002015-11-14T01:59:57.263-05:00'He is bisexual too - he would pay girls to br...'He is bisexual too - he would pay girls to bring him transsexuals to have sex with.<br /><br />http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3315835/Porn-star-sex-Hollywood-actor-secretly-battling-HIV-fears-epidemic-reveals-slept-50-adult-actresses-transsexuals.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-8081274440736881552015-11-13T09:04:40.972-05:002015-11-13T09:04:40.972-05:00They believe that its right for themselves, not ne...They believe that its right for themselves, not necessarily right for everyone though. SJWs tend to dehumanize their opponents, by labeling them racists(potential Nazis) or by saying they will destroy the environment. In this way, SJWs can believe that what they preach is good for humanity, since their opponents are subhuman.<br /><br />We're not "all in it together", and each group wants to weed out the other groups. The question is who really represents a majority of people, vs. who represents a minority that will screw over most of the public. Curtisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-82636203449322133502015-11-12T21:30:43.697-05:002015-11-12T21:30:43.697-05:00Really enjoyed that. Great insight.
There is one...Really enjoyed that. Great insight. <br /><br />There is one logical flaw though: if SJW's are just status-signalling to rise above the competition, then it could be argued that Steve Sailer is status-signalling too? (which, in ways, i guess he kinda <i>is</i> wielding his intellectual prowess for all to see).<br /><br />Do SJW's actually believe what they say is 'true' and 'just' and 'right' in the exact same way as we believe what we communicate is 'true' and 'just' and 'right'. <br /><br />Or are we all just status signalling in a world with limited resources?<br /><br />Lulznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-57381244697199861642015-11-12T18:46:17.450-05:002015-11-12T18:46:17.450-05:00It seems to be made much worse by the cocooning. ...It seems to be made much worse by the cocooning. You had inequality in the '00s and '10s and the beginning of the '20s, yet from what I remember from history class you didn't have lifestyle or persona striving back then, or maybe you did but in different forms.Curtisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-10145498994970091142015-11-12T09:16:45.226-05:002015-11-12T09:16:45.226-05:00"There is some overlap, but not very much whe..."There is some overlap, but not very much when you look at it. VERY FEW members of Gen X have ever been careerist yuppie types. Millennials either, who expect the top part of the job pyramid to remain out of reach. "Thank you, sir, may I have another unpaid internship?""<br /><br />Thank you, modern medicine. Silents and Boomers are going to dominate the upper echelon of government, the corporate world, academia for perhaps decades to come. Though it does seem that the stresses of hedonism and combative careerism (Silents established themselves in the gentler world of the 50's-70's) are catching up to Boomers, so there is that.<br /><br />By the time the baton is handed off (via attrition) to X-ers, most X-ers will be well into elderhood. How will they handle it? Being demoralized and on the margins for so long, etc. One thing Strauss and Howe never tackled is that this octogenarian domination is unprecedented in human history. If Silents want to hog all the benefits and security, uhh, fine, if they'd die off quick enough. But they ain't dying. <br /><br />Boy, what timing.<br /><br />An equitable environment to grow up in, a soaring job market, abusing the kindness and naivete of society as you age. Take Take Take, but where's the giving?Ferylnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-44808903621567424592015-11-12T02:51:30.577-05:002015-11-12T02:51:30.577-05:00It's no coincidence that both PewDiePie and La...It's no coincidence that both PewDiePie and Laci Green are Millennials... in fact, they're born within one week of each other in 1989. Uncanny.<br /><br />Boomers are career strivers.<br /><br />Gen X are lifestyle strivers.<br /><br />Millennials are persona strivers.<br /><br />There is some overlap, but not very much when you look at it. VERY FEW members of Gen X have ever been careerist yuppie types. Millennials either, who expect the top part of the job pyramid to remain out of reach. "Thank you, sir, may I have another unpaid internship?"<br /><br />These differences are important to keep in mind whenever looking at social phenomena. Whatever it is, Boomers will try to make a job or wealth contest out of it, X-ers will turn it into a lifestyle contest, and Millennials will try to make it about how my persona ("identity") is so much awesomer than yours (without acting or doing or behaving).<br /><br />I'm thinking in particular about political movements. Say, a conservative one. What does it mean to be a committed conservative?<br /><br />Boomer: "I fundraise to eliminate the capital gains tax!"<br /><br />Gen X-er: "I go to a church with traditional services!"<br /><br />Millennial: "I wear vintage preppy sweaters!"<br /><br />Naturally I'm going to spin my generation as having the least wrong with its approach. But it really is worth thinking about -- is each generation of conservative equally bad (or good), or is there something about one that makes it the most likely to effect change.<br /><br />More importantly: what each generation considers the ideal to change toward will be different. Boomers want low taxes, Gen X-ers want to see more people going to church and eating dinner as a family, and Millennials want to see SJWs destroyed by shitlord trolls on Twitter. Again, call it generational bias, but it should be thought about.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-66274351104255293902015-11-12T02:26:39.183-05:002015-11-12T02:26:39.183-05:00YouTube is another persona-striving site worth men...YouTube is another persona-striving site worth mentioning.<br /><br />Some celebrities are clearly "doing" a character for entertainment. But others are not behaving as though their videos are just a performance of a role.<br /><br />They aren't successful in the career world. Nor are they lifestyle gurus -- sharing the secrets of how to make Thai meals, how to find cheap apartments for travel so you don't have to stay at a touristy hotel, etc. That stuff is on YouTube, but no one pays it much attention, and it's not a source of swarms of followers and status points.<br /><br />It's more about their knowledge, opinions, preferences, affiliations (both who their allies and enemies are), and so on. If they can hit all the right buttons with these traits, their persona is exalted to special snowflake Valhalla.<br /><br />PewDiePie, the most subscribed YouTuber, is a clear case of persona striving. You could blame it on how obsessed with video games today's kids are, but his appeal is not that he talks about video games -- he and every other Millennial guy on the internet -- it's that he makes it seem like the viewer is part of the social world of their favorite persona. Conversing with them, referring to them as his army, etc.<br /><br />Laci Green is another case (not at the top of the subscriber list, but still over 1 million). She bills herself as an "activist," as though it were based on actions, but she's just a personal brand promoter. She's that random girl with no filter in your dorm who you can converse frankly about awkward stuff with. Key word: converse, since the viewers feel like they're part of her informal social world, not just listening to some aloof educator drone on and on. And she has a costume -- geek chic -- instead of a drab unthought-about look that practicing psychologists wear.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-69758292752108436222015-11-11T22:42:10.543-05:002015-11-11T22:42:10.543-05:00I should emphasize that it's not just human de...I should emphasize that it's not just human detritus who compete over their persona rather than over a lifestyle or a career. With both of those arenas being fairly saturated by now, even otherwise normal young people are joining the persona competition.<br /><br />Some shy cute girl wants to craft a persona as a muse to a Bohemian photographer, so she focuses her OCD on vintage-inspired clothes from Urban Outfitters, finds quirky places around her neck of the woods to shoot a few selfies from her iPhone, and uploads them to Instagram, where they form part of an ongoing persona-shaping project.<br /><br />Guy followers, all thirsty as hell, fawn over her looks, and the fact that she seems cool to hang out with, unlike careerists, and unlike the porno girls they're used to watching.<br /><br />Girl followers wish they could look as cute and chic as she does -- and all while non-sexually presenting herself, with no guys in the pictures.<br /><br />The audience has been drawn in by her persona more than just her looks. They know she isn't a professional model, and so probably doesn't have much income or wealth. And these persona selfies usually don't show her engaging in specific activities, which would establish a lifestyle to emulate. We don't know if she eats a vegan or a paleo diet, whether she drinks normal beer or craft beer, etc. It's the persona itself that has attracted so many followers.<br /><br />In other cases, the persona is not "shy, cute girl serving as muse to Boho photog" but "ratchet skrippah who don' let da haterz bring down her triumphant diva-ness".<br /><br />The Instagram celebrities are all models of one kind or another.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-65808983438219394572015-11-11T22:25:19.283-05:002015-11-11T22:25:19.283-05:00"Any idea who this is? Odds this "straig..."Any idea who this is? Odds this "straight" actor is a closet homo?"<br /><br />Here are the guesses at Blind Gossip:<br /><br />blindgossip.com/?p=74786<br /><br />The best guess seems to be Colin Farrell. The post says that he's been heavily into drugs before, and if it's with a needle, that is one of the few ways that straight men can get it.<br /><br />The Irish -- giving fags a run for their money in the degeneracy sweepstakes.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-12845935592215823822015-11-11T19:27:24.217-05:002015-11-11T19:27:24.217-05:00Get-high-status-quick - love it. Reminds me of the...Get-high-status-quick - love it. Reminds me of the cooking boom from 2007-2014 (I think it's dying off) where suddenly anyone could look like a sick genius just by reading the right blogs. Fields tend to become prey to status competitions when knowledge opens up and is widely communicated - it used to take years of experience and work to have any idea what you're doing with a meal, but now just by reading a few Kenji Alt-Lopez blog posts you can leap far ahead. Of course, all get-status-quick competitions eventually become saturated by losers and you're back to square one before you know it.<br /><br />I do think this also has something to do with how the conceptual distance between dilettantes and experts has shrunk. A guy who was in the top .1% of a locally popular sport would be pretty impressive to his local community and have a nice hobby but now you're a Google search away from being compared with the world's best.Sublatenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-8132831731194334122015-11-11T13:10:25.425-05:002015-11-11T13:10:25.425-05:00"Is this why Tumblr has gotten so popular?&qu..."Is this why Tumblr has gotten so popular?"<br /><br />I haven't looked at Tumblr since it originally came out, and back then it was just people posting random stuff, or examples of a type. What you're describing now does sound more like persona striving.<br /><br />Video games rely more and more on letting the player craft a persona... not just "letting," more like it's the central reason for playing the game. Nobody played Nintendo to customize an alter-persona back in the '80s.<br /><br />And from what I hear about modern games, they introduce sexual deviance of one kind or another, too. And not just bawdy humor a la Leisure Suit Larry from the old days, but making a main character gay, making you talk to / flirt with / catch AIDS from a homo or tranny character, etc.<br /><br />Persona striving seems to promote deviance per se -- if you're trying to carve out your own distinctive character brand, it can't be like what everybody else is already like. You have to move a little farther away from normal -- and if you're looking to "get rich quick," as far as persona points go, you're going to depart from the norm more strongly and more rapidly.<br /><br />The whole point of holding status contests in this persona domain was to find a place where the field had not been saturated, and therefore where getting high-status quick was still a possibility. So most entrants in the persona striving contests will show this rapid progression of deviance, of one sort or another.<br /><br />I'm sexually awkward -> I'm tranny -> I'm a hermaphrodite dragon vampire<br /><br />I'm a societal misfit -> I'm a political rebel -> I'm a Thor-worshiping* neo-Nazi<br /><br />* Does not actually worship, i.e. in practices or rituals, since that would be a lifestyle thing. More like affiliating with, thinking highly of, etc., as part of my persona.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-73191301397878181842015-11-11T11:39:37.203-05:002015-11-11T11:39:37.203-05:00OT:
Any idea who this is? Odds this "straig...OT: <br /><br />Any idea who this is? Odds this "straight" actor is a closet homo?<br /><br /><br />PAPER: Superstar womanizer has HIV...<br /><br />Hollywood rocked...<br /><br />http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/6737076/Superstar-Hollywood-womaniser-has-HIV.html<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-40799754657889247682015-11-11T10:55:12.638-05:002015-11-11T10:55:12.638-05:00you can take any kind of view you want. The reali... you can take any kind of view you want. The reality is that a lot of young people are prevented from meaningful advancement, and that many of those who do have jobs aren't contributing much, because of overproduction of the elites.Curtisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-58407260777122583122015-11-11T05:25:53.515-05:002015-11-11T05:25:53.515-05:00Is this why Tumblr has gotten so popular? "Li...Is this why Tumblr has gotten so popular? "Liberal Arts Nerd living in his parent's basement priced out of the job market" can't be considered anything but a loser, but "Enlightened Member of the Rationalist Brigade Fighting Against Ignorance on the Internet With a Trilby and a Smile" actually sounds like someone who might be somebody. "Overworked Barista Still Living At Home So She Can Make Her 700 Dollar a Month Student Loan Payment" doesn't sound like anyone with anything meaningful to contribute to society, but "Otherkin Dragon Royalty from the Planet Vespiria" or "Blazinghair the Transexual Crusader Smashing the Patriarchy With the Hammer of Justice" sound like veeeerrrrrry important people. I also notice a lot of these Tumblr Zombies base their identity around promoting sexual deviance. Could this be because a lot of them realize they're not going to put forth the effort (or not going to have the opportunity) to live traditional American Dream lives? If a man goes without sex for too many years, he could just say "F' it!", put on a dress and try his luck as a woman. Creating an atmosphere where he can do so with with minimal repercussions would seem, to him, to be in his best interests. Ugly femihags with spare tires might turn lesbo when the alpha male of their dreams fails to materialize (and all of the beta males who ARE interested in them turn their ample stomachs. Better, she figures, to date a decent looking woman than a hideous manboobed manchild.)TroperAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-88118202736279935522015-11-10T10:20:50.793-05:002015-11-10T10:20:50.793-05:00That is too harsh. They are getting squashed by i...That is too harsh. They are getting squashed by inequality, and its only human nature to try to stay in the game any way you can.Curtisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-41525403381302092152015-11-10T07:25:41.672-05:002015-11-10T07:25:41.672-05:00I know these persona strivers. They've been a...I know these persona strivers. They've been around for a while.<br /><br />I'm in my early 30s and these were the people who graduated college but did not find full time work when they graduated college. They post constantly on Facebook about anything and everything. They will even joke that they post on Facebook about anything and everything.<br /><br />They've been doing this for 10 years now but there are cracks forming in the facade. There's a twinge of bitterness in their posts now but it is directed towards socially acceptable targets (capitalism, Trump, etc.) The men are balding and paunchy, the women look 10 years older than they are and they're getting a spare tire too. They're pretty forgotten and forgettable. I used to think they posted constantly so people were aware they existed but persona striving makes more sense. I can't help but wonder what happens anytime they see one of their Facebook friends posting about getting a promotion or having a baby.Random Dude on the Internetnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-46127616088173270302015-11-10T04:37:20.349-05:002015-11-10T04:37:20.349-05:00"Do you think persona crafting gets people la..."Do you think persona crafting gets people laid?"<br /><br />That's the basis of the whole pickup artist thing.<br /><br />The PUA phenomenon shows the shift away from wealth-and-career striving. Back in the '80s, the advice to young single guys was to convince women that you were upwardly mobile. Probably because that's what Boomer women were turned on by.<br /><br />By the mid-2000s, that was no longer the form of status contests that young men and women were paying attention to. "Oh God, another red Ferrari driver with a micro-penis..." The game had shifted to lifestyle contests -- did you hang out at the hippest bars and order the fashionable foodie drinks (try saying "mojitos" without lisping).<br /><br />The PUA crowd was pushing for persona crafting somewhat earlier than the rest of youth culture. But by now, its assumptions are totally mainstream -- obsessive-compulsively rehearse the key facets of your personal brand for the jury, particularly on social media (Tinder).<br /><br />It's telling that a disproportionate share of the PUA crowd these days are poor-to-middling, young, non-whites, just like the membership of Instagram and other persona striving sites.<br /><br />They don't have the high-status careers to provide for women, and they don't know how to play the lifestyle game whose coolness rules were written by white people for white people. So instead it's about how to fashion a persona that mimics what a one-night-stand slut is looking for.<br /><br />In fairness, back in the day, the PUA crowd was mostly a backlash against the feminazi brainwashing of the '90s, and reminding young guys how to not act like a faggy dingus around girls, and how to carry yourself more like Steve McQueen would have.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-60870417633267852872015-11-09T12:27:10.602-05:002015-11-09T12:27:10.602-05:00One example of what you're talking about might...One example of what you're talking about might be a trend I've noticed over the last 4 yrears in NorCal - walking in the street rather than using the sidewalk. The only problem is that it doesn't seem to be limited to any particular age group. I confronted a couple in their late '60's about it and tgey claimed that the street was easier on their knees, LOL. But whites around 70who didn't get rich, and live in a suburb dominated by asians, must be feeling a lot of status anxiety.furdnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-44329257159131983582015-11-09T08:45:00.304-05:002015-11-09T08:45:00.304-05:00that may explain the rebellion against liberal art...that may explain the rebellion against liberal arts colleges - that, more and more, they are failing even as lifestyle training, as lifestyle competition becomes harder and harder.Curtisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-84539436946507061432015-11-09T08:31:05.233-05:002015-11-09T08:31:05.233-05:00Thanks for the new insight. This has been going o...Thanks for the new insight. This has been going on for awhile, coinciding with the invention of the Facebook status update back in 2006 or so. <br /><br />One reason why this is becoming popular is that lifestyle competition has become overloaded. Not just eating out at fancy restaurants, but also volunteer efforts or becoming an advocate - most activism opportunities are being snatched up by Boomers.<br /><br />Curtisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-48036293756698346882015-11-09T08:26:30.895-05:002015-11-09T08:26:30.895-05:00Do you think persona crafting gets people laid?Do you think persona crafting gets people laid?Sublatenoreply@blogger.com