tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post2467235901338662389..comments2024-03-28T21:56:51.675-04:00Comments on Face to Face: Who can conduct talks for US, if Deep State has no mouthpiece in Trump?agnostichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-9639063446031985192017-05-02T20:24:36.424-04:002017-05-02T20:24:36.424-04:00Trump is putting on the brakes as much as he can, ...Trump is putting on the brakes as much as he can, given the direction or path the Pentagon has put him/us on. McCain or Romney would have stepped on the gas.<br /><br />But the path points toward regime change / building democracy in Syria and confrontation with Russia, which is 180 degrees away from the path Trump wanted us to be on.<br /><br />His National Security Council led by McMaster also wants $20-30 billion more to blow on building democracy in Afghanistan (Cernovich first, then Eli Lake confirming as usual).<br /><br />I haven't criticized Trump once re: foreign policy. I place 100% of the blame for going in the wrong direction on the Pentagon boarding party that landed shortly after inauguration, beginning with the ouster of Flynn, the only "General" who wanted to get along with Russia and who in 2015 publicly accepted the possibility that the chemical attack in Syria in 2013 was a false flag by jihadists.<br /><br />The gay internet slapfight between blackpillers and rationalizers assumes, on both sides, that Trump is omnipotent. So if we're going on the opposite track that he has been preaching for years, that must be truly what he wants us to be doing.<br /><br />The blackpillers interpret that to mean that the correctness of the original goal remains, and therefore Trump has sold out or betrayed or whatever.<br /><br />The rationalizers interpret it to mean that the original goal turns out to be incorrect, and for whatever reason (new info, change in values, etc.) the new path is the optimal one, however much it differs in orientation from the campaign promises and Trump's views going back years / decades.<br /><br />My view is that Trump has not changed, nor have his goals and priorities, but that he is not omnipotent, especially against the military wing of Deep State. He has run into an obstacle that cannot be moved or circumvented, so he has been re-routed onto the wrong path against his will.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-64323417240071027762017-05-02T17:32:18.162-04:002017-05-02T17:32:18.162-04:00worth noting that there are a lot of reports that ...worth noting that there are a lot of reports that trump declined more aggressive action on syria.<br /><br />http://www.newsweek.com/trump-reviewed-aggressive-military-options-syria-580956<br /><br />and there was that bizarre incident during a fox interview where he momentarily slipped up and said the us had bombed iraq. <br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfYFm_H_isY<br /><br />of course we should be skeptical of all media. but i get the impression that syria is literally, kind of an after thought for this administration. the bulk of their attention seems to be on north korea (you know my theories there) and to a lesser extent iran. although trump has to be fair, taken a far more moderate line on iran than he did a decade ago. i do think the consensus has shifted on the matter. i don't want to be totally negative.lexie88https://www.blogger.com/profile/02193817657084020002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-68061372682365278492017-05-02T17:16:05.166-04:002017-05-02T17:16:05.166-04:00i think there seems to be a bit of ambiguity here ...<br />i think there seems to be a bit of ambiguity here as to what is actually being said by assad. yes, we could interpret this as assad speaking of something along the lines of a loss of civilian control of government and threat of a coup or something close to it. that’s the most extreme, most literal interpretation.<br /><br />or i think, we could take it to mean something more abstract and impersonal. more along the lines of the president facing enormous institutional hurdles, if not outright mutiny yet. undoubtedly, we lack lobbyists on our side on a number of issues as alluded to. and the president isn’t merely being fed questionable intelligence.. he is being subject to leaks and spurious claims by a lot of these people. all of that is observable. and frightening in itself.<br /><br />also complicating matters is that it’s obviously in assad’s interests to try and diminish the role of the president. to cast further doubt on the legitimacy of the us government. not that i believe that he the ordered gas attack. i don’t believe that. too many details doesn't make sense about the "timeline of events," or seem suspiciously omitted there. but there is a propagandistic element to this. i mean it is literally venezuelan television he's speaking on. he may be playing to the crowd a bit.lexie88https://www.blogger.com/profile/02193817657084020002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-47815790136708466722017-04-30T15:04:46.974-04:002017-04-30T15:04:46.974-04:00"Thank Jesus that Russia liberated Aleppo as ..."Thank Jesus that Russia liberated Aleppo as fast as they did -- otherwise we would have been in a hot war with Russia over their presence in that city. The Pentagon had to settle for a more limited propaganda narrative, without the months and months of constant BS in the media that Aleppo had received. Nobody in the media had been talking about Idlib at all."<br /><br />Yes. Also, that fire-bombed bus filled with kids and the total black-out of this 100+ killing has had a strong chilling effect on the narrative and saber-rattling. Most in our media couldn't even bring themselves to name or speculate as to who was responsible. It doesn't help them that a vigorous anti-war contingent now has such a strong counter visual now.<br /><br />http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-04-17/syrian-bus-bombing-kills-at-least-80-children/8447104Dahlianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-12399960686359669802017-04-30T14:22:38.756-04:002017-04-30T14:22:38.756-04:00Agnostic's place is a place of love, peace, an...Agnostic's place is a place of love, peace, and light. Just a lotta people showing up lately who don't get this.Dahlianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-19402842893625757572017-04-30T14:10:11.090-04:002017-04-30T14:10:11.090-04:00RW means "Israel" by "them".
...RW means "Israel" by "them".<br /><br />As for Pence, remember the VP debate where he contradicted Trump on both Russia and Syria:<br /><br />http://www.vox.com/2016/10/4/13170020/mike-pence-vice-presidential-debate-russia<br /><br />There's your garden-variety insults against Putin and Russia, and talking about Crimea as a crime we have to avenge. But listen to what he said about Syria and Assad, which now sounds a lot more ominous:<br /><br />"If Russia continues to be involved in this barbaric attack on civilians in Aleppo, the US needs to be prepared to strike military targets of the Assad regime to prevent them from [taking part in] this humanitarian crisis taking place in Aleppo."<br /><br />The humanitarian crisis was jihadists holding the city hostage, while Russia intervened to drive them out in a matter of months with only dozens of civilian casualties, in a city of millions.<br /><br />Aleppo had been liberated from our jihadist allies by Inauguration Day, so what was Deep State supposed to do? They had planned out their propaganda narrative about the cruel butcher Assad attacking his own people in Aleppo, backed by the evil meddler Putin.<br /><br />Shift focus to somewhere else in that same area, but still under jihadist control -- Idlib. Assad attacks, chemicals go off (probably put there by jihadists as precursors or final forms of their own chemical weapons), and there's your pretext for war.<br /><br />The only problem is that Russia was not involved in that attack like they were in liberating Aleppo. Darn! Well, just insinuate that Russia was either so ignorant or permissive of Assad's supposed chemical attack plans, or maybe even encouraged a chemical attack. Now they can pin some blame on Putin and saber-rattle against Russia at the same time as against Syria and Assad.<br /><br />Obviously Pence did not come up with that answer spontaneously -- he was coached by Pentagon people.<br /><br />Thank Jesus that Russia liberated Aleppo as fast as they did -- otherwise we would have been in a hot war with Russia over their presence in that city. The Pentagon had to settle for a more limited propaganda narrative, without the months and months of constant BS in the media that Aleppo had received. Nobody in the media had been talking about Idlib at all.<br /><br />That only allowed them a more limited strike, instead of the broader strikes they would have carried out if the media could still broadcast images of "the humanitarian crisis in war-torn Aleppo" (torn by our jihadist allies).agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-90568454247119724052017-04-30T13:13:54.824-04:002017-04-30T13:13:54.824-04:00I don't trust anyone coming here saying with e...I don't trust anyone coming here saying with emphases "they" and "them". <br /><br />Did you watch Trump and Pence in Pennsylvania last night? Pence was early and eager about Mattis and NK(?)...I don't remember exactly, but I didn't get "held hostage" vibe from him. President Trump was a whole 'nother story...Dahlianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-21226589892048097762017-04-30T09:25:11.351-04:002017-04-30T09:25:11.351-04:00If Israel want "regime change" in Syria ...If <i>Israel</i> want "regime change" in Syria (and let's be honest - that is what this is all about) then let <i>them</i> do it and not connive a gullible American President into doing it for them. There is absolutely no benefit to the US in deposing Assad.Robert What?https://www.blogger.com/profile/03863449539859132763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-43825214055341350792017-04-29T21:06:50.470-04:002017-04-29T21:06:50.470-04:00"I don't even see much enthusiasm for Nor..."I don't even see much enthusiasm for North Korea, a country that everyone thinks is bad on a bipartisan level."<br /><br />No enthusiasm among the general public, but the Pentagon and the elites are jizzing themselves over it. And in Korea, there was not even a precipitating event that drew our focus to it. It was just, all of the sudden, we have to obsess over Korea and use our military to stabilize our economic rivals (SK, China, Japan).<br /><br />The Deep State doesn't mind going rogue against the people, and now even the Commander-in-Chief. The only open question is how far they'll push. While that remains to be seen, the fact that they've over-ruled the President and by extension the American people, does not bode well.<br /><br />During the Iraq War, Bush and a good share of the public were in favor of the Pentagon's wish to destroy Iraq. The military was not going rogue, even if it had no point.<br /><br />Now they've gone rogue, and that audacity certainly raises rather than diminishes the probability that they're going to get us into some real serious shit.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-26908623864217889152017-04-29T20:56:03.415-04:002017-04-29T20:56:03.415-04:00Neocons are obsessed with Cuba, and have been sinc...Neocons are obsessed with Cuba, and have been since the 1950s and '60s. Ditto NK -- back to the 1950s.<br /><br />That was long before Israel became a client state in the 1970s.<br /><br />You didn't know that we sided against Israel in the Suez Crisis of 1956, bolstering a secular Arab nationalist leader who just nationalized a major colonial asset that the Israelis were hoping to get a piece of.<br /><br />Cold War / anti-Soviet maneuvering explains everything, and predates our alliance with Israel.<br /><br />So what you have is Jews piggy-backing on the American military that would be pointing against Russia, Syria, and Iran of their own volition. Jews are not directing any of that.<br /><br />Your comments are too dumb and annoying, so don't bother commenting anymore.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-40233259195221165712017-04-29T20:48:55.917-04:002017-04-29T20:48:55.917-04:00I don't really see a scenario where people wil...I don't really see a scenario where people will come around to supporting a war in Syria. Time and time again people have rejected it. This time they falsified a chemical weapons attack...and people were still lukewarm at best.<br /><br />It's over. The deep state/military deep state lost here. The public no longer just goes along with military intervention schemes anymore. Maybe it's a sign of trouble at home. People who think there are a lot of domestic issues to take on are not going to be supportive of additional foreign conflict(s). I don't even see much enthusiasm for North Korea, a country that everyone thinks is bad on a bipartisan level.Random Dude on the Internetnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-82839740954883200022017-04-29T20:42:51.136-04:002017-04-29T20:42:51.136-04:00On the other hand, you cannot explain the obsessio...<i>On the other hand, you cannot explain the obsession with Cuba and North Korea under the view that Israel / Jews use the Pentagon as their shabbas goy military.</i><br /><br />I don't need to. Paul Wolfowitz, Robert Kagan and Bill Kristol or Netanyahu are not obsessed with Cuba.<br /><br />And neither were Bush, Cheney or Rumsfeld.<br /><br /><i>Explain the most of the "data" with the fewest assumptions.</i><br /><br />No. I don't agree with Occam's razor.<br /><br />I have no problem understanding multiple causation or multiple self serving agendas.<br /><br />Same with immigration. Republican agribusiness types have different motives than Democrat la razas or DNC operatives but they work towards the same agenda of more mestizo, Hispanic immigration/amnesty in the US.<br /><br />In US foreign policy again three factors not one. No need to eliminate Jewish ethnocentric agendas from why decisions are made in US policy.<br /><br />Although I know why THEY don't want it discussed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-38595195650108555102017-04-29T19:51:20.048-04:002017-04-29T19:51:20.048-04:00You're the one trying too hard -- 3 factors wh...You're the one trying too hard -- 3 factors when 1 will suffice.<br /><br />The non-Jewish controlled Pentagon continuing its Cold War push against the Soviet / Russian sphere of influence is sufficient to explain the march of NATO through Eastern Europe.<br /><br />On the other hand, you cannot explain the obsession with Cuba and North Korea under the view that Israel / Jews use the Pentagon as their shabbas goy military. Meanwhile, such fixations on Cuba and NK follow naturally from the view that the Pentagon is simply (and insanely) continuing its distinctly American Cold War policies vis-a-vis the Soviet / Russian sphere.<br /><br />You can't explain major cases (Cuba, NK), and the cases you can explain do not require an Israeli angle (Iran). The straightforward view of mine explains all of them -- that's how straightforward explanations work. Explain the most of the "data" with the fewest assumptions.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-16580575075459816032017-04-29T19:37:49.360-04:002017-04-29T19:37:49.360-04:00But the whole Axis of Evil thing is from the Cold ...<i>But the whole Axis of Evil thing is from the Cold War, not anything distinctly Jewish or Israeli or Zionist. They are the countries that eluded incorporation into the American sphere of influence -- Cuba, North Korea, Iraq, Syria, Iran, and Libya.</i><br /><br />To David Frum, who came up with the term, it's ALL about Israel.<br /><br /><i>The Pentagon's vision is to conquer the holdouts from the Cold War era against the Soviet Union, a distinctly American perspective (albeit insane and out-of-date) rather than a distinctly Israeli perspective.</i><br /><br />You are trying to hard. I said 3 factors were involved. The MIC and Jewish identity activists are not in conflict.<br /><br /><i>The insane build-up of NATO forces farther eastward in Europe, right up against Russia's borders, obviously has zero to do with Israel. Nor does Crimea.</i><br /><br />Tell that to Victoria Nuland and her neo-con husband Robert Kagan!<br /><br />Czar Putin touches a raw Jewish nerve as does Trump. Plus last time I checked Russia isn't exactly hostile to Assad or the Iranians.<br /><br />Jews are very aware of that.<br /><br /><i>What crazy theory do you propose for framing the NATO expansion as the Americans and Europeans being shabbas goyim for Israel's secret plans against Russia?</i><br /><br />Crazy theory? As I said the MIC is motivated by a need to justify their contracts and careers. Russia as threat is a big motivator.<br /><br />Now why might ethnocentric Jews hate Putin and Russia? Any clues?<br /><br />Are they happy about Putin taking down all those nice Jewish boys who took over Russia's economy in the 90s? <br /><br />Russia's ongoing support for Iran's client in Syria? <br /><br />Do they remember and want revenge for Russia's military and political support for all those Arab regimes who fought Israel?<br /><br />Jews...remember? nah..........Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-86700250526187447182017-04-29T19:14:58.112-04:002017-04-29T19:14:58.112-04:00The insane build-up of NATO forces farther eastwar...The insane build-up of NATO forces farther eastward in Europe, right up against Russia's borders, obviously has zero to do with Israel. Nor does Crimea.<br /><br />That's just good old Cold War "strategy" to advance the American sphere against the Soviet / Russian sphere.<br /><br />What crazy theory do you propose for framing the NATO expansion as the Americans and Europeans being shabbas goyim for Israel's secret plans against Russia?agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-78509226237274986222017-04-29T19:07:39.330-04:002017-04-29T19:07:39.330-04:00We know that Jews are willing propagandists for th...We know that Jews are willing propagandists for the Pentagon, and that they will promote anything that is good for Israel / bad for Israel's enemies.<br /><br />But the whole Axis of Evil thing is from the Cold War, not anything distinctly Jewish or Israeli or Zionist. They are the countries that eluded incorporation into the American sphere of influence -- Cuba, North Korea, Iraq, Syria, Iran, and Libya.<br /><br />Cuba means diddly-squat to Israel. NK doesn't export diddly-squat to Israel's enemy Iran, compared to Russian and Chinese arms exports.<br /><br />The Pentagon's vision is to conquer the holdouts from the Cold War era against the Soviet Union, a distinctly American perspective (albeit insane and out-of-date) rather than a distinctly Israeli perspective.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-85813126240975145712017-04-29T18:55:18.874-04:002017-04-29T18:55:18.874-04:00Now that it's clear that the Pentagon is not j...<i>Now that it's clear that the Pentagon is not just launching an isolated airstrike on Syria, but is expanding the focus to be the old "Axis of Evil" countries from 2002, it will not be hard to remind people of where this is all headed.</i><br /><br />Axis of Evil is Jewish neo-con David Frum's phrase for "threat to the jews".<br /><br />Meaning North Korea doesn't care about Israel but they will sell rocket technology to two countries that do - Iran and Iraq.<br /><br />Now we just replace Iraq with Syria.<br /><br />Remember Jewish neocon Bill Kristol wanted Mattis to run for president. Mattis is viewed as a shabos goy for Israel, an Israeli agent of influence in the Pentagon.<br /><br />We had a ton of them in there under Rumsfeld. And they were actual Jews not merely shabos goys.<br /><br />Same old, same old.<br /><br />Again it's:<br /><br />- The military industrial complex and its contractors and careerists at defense, state and cia<br /><br />- Wall street bottom lines<br /><br />- Jewish ethnic identity politics.<br /><br />Keep your eye on all three. They are behind so many counter productive/anti American policies.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-56569317321661151932017-04-29T17:29:40.669-04:002017-04-29T17:29:40.669-04:00Pat Buchanan is another one who has settled on the...Pat Buchanan is another one who has settled on the view that it's Trump vs. the military wing of Deep State:<br /><br />http://www.unz.com/pbuchanan/the-rise-of-the-generals/<br /><br />As well as Old Left political economists:<br /><br />https://maps.southfront.org/missile-attack-on-syria-a-silent-coup/<br /><br />In other words, people who are analyzing things institutionally rather than as a free-for-all clash of individual personalities, share this basic view of Trump getting over-ruled by Deep State on foreign policy.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-74795079981162923672017-04-29T17:23:53.440-04:002017-04-29T17:23:53.440-04:00Assange is another big-picture guy who gets it. He...Assange is another big-picture guy who gets it. He doesn't mind if Sean Hannity and Fox News give him free marketing, as long as the truth gets out.<br /><br />And during the week of the airstrike on Syria, he implies that Trump had opposite goals but got over-ruled by the Deep State:<br /><br />"Well, we can talk a little bit later about what’s happened to the Trump administration and this fascinating process that we have been seeing about how many days does it take for the security sector to digest a president. Something like 75 appears to be the answer."<br /><br />https://www.democracynow.org/2017/4/12/full_interview_julian_assange_on_trump<br /><br />Like Assad, Assange is not blaming Trump for changing his mind or selling out. There's just too strong of a push from the "security sector" to resist so early on in his presidency.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-62977091077465508332017-04-29T17:05:44.498-04:002017-04-29T17:05:44.498-04:00We try to stop it by making our voices heard and g...We try to stop it by making our voices heard and gradually raising the social costs to the Pentagon brass.<br /><br />How is it going to look when there's 1 million people assembled on The Mall, or the Pentagon itself, with signs saying "America First, Deep State Last" and "Trump Voters Against Deep State" and "Defend America's Borders, Not Turkey's," etc.?<br /><br />Simply getting the word out that Trump wanted one thing, and the Pentagon wanted the opposite and over-ruled the supposed civilian Commander-in-Chief -- that's enough to wake most people up right there.<br /><br />Only trouble is if they prefer the Pentagon's interventionism (Boomers still deluded about America being able to impose its will, humanitarian intervention, etc.). But there's plenty of opposition to that even among Trump voters, forget the rank-and-file Democrats and Independents.<br /><br />In that YouGov poll about which demographic groups supported the airstrike, wanted humanitarian intervention, etc., non-whites were the most turned off. That's a good chunk of the Democrat base we could get on our side right away. Aside from seeing a non-white country getting bombed, they don't like the government's money being spent on some foreign group rather than black Americans.<br /><br />The opposition includes everyone who voted for Obama against McCain just eight years ago, a major theme being neocon interventionism vs. staying out of it. That was one of the few elections where the Democrat won the white vote.<br /><br />Now that it's clear that the Pentagon is not just launching an isolated airstrike on Syria, but is expanding the focus to be the old "Axis of Evil" countries from 2002, it will not be hard to remind people of where this is all headed.<br /><br />The key is to not blame Trump, since he has been so opposed to it, and because he's already surrounded by the enemy. We have to focus specifically on the Deep State, Pentagon, or whatever you want to call it.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-29817073293561335032017-04-29T16:55:16.457-04:002017-04-29T16:55:16.457-04:00Jews control the Pentagon -- good one. They contro...Jews control the Pentagon -- good one. They control a different faction of The System, namely Wall Street.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-9174070088355485172017-04-29T16:46:10.253-04:002017-04-29T16:46:10.253-04:00"How do we go to war against this? Stop this ..."How do we go to war against this? Stop this insanity?"<br /><br />By making it known precisely which people comprise the Deep State, which is a meaningless term without racial context. The Deep State is only one group of people. They are not Americans, they are foreigners who serve foreign interests. They keep winning because Americans who know who they are afraid to call them what they are: Jews. You defeat them by exposing them.Adieunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-18426336714994465302017-04-29T11:41:59.858-04:002017-04-29T11:41:59.858-04:00How do we go to war against this? Stop this insan...How do we go to war against this? Stop this insanity? It seems we can only watch this slow-moving multi-car accident from the sides.<br /><br />Ron Paul interviewed Assange, btw.Dahlianoreply@blogger.com