tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post1848990287087073523..comments2024-03-28T18:19:57.964-04:00Comments on Face to Face: Trading the Mormons for Michigan: A winning realignmentagnostichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-26423196135598263032016-03-25T00:55:50.194-04:002016-03-25T00:55:50.194-04:00Oh also forgot, if you aren't the biggest fan ...Oh also forgot, if you aren't the biggest fan of Jews, why would you not think Puritans are insane?<br /><br />Puritans were the creators of the Christian Zionism that still dominates Christian Evangelicals and some Mainline today. Calvinists time and time again exulted and praised Jewish people.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-62014954573794429782016-03-25T00:50:34.191-04:002016-03-25T00:50:34.191-04:00Generation X, 1970.
Jews did not dominate Harvar...Generation X, 1970.<br /><br /> Jews did not dominate Harvard, Yale until after after WW II. Ever heard of Jewish Quotas? Jonas Salk and Richard Feynman, two of the most brilliant scientists ever, got rejected from Ivy League because of it and had to go to NYU instead.<br /><br />Do you really think Harvard, Yale, etc. weren't leftist in the 1800s and early 1900s, when they were completely WASP run operations?<br /><br />Puritans were not like Anglicans and Lutherans in terms of being relatively normal in 1600s.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-45976551589790239002016-03-24T19:22:22.100-04:002016-03-24T19:22:22.100-04:00You're "pretty much" an airhead mill...You're "pretty much" an airhead millennial spaz.<br /><br />Polygamy, blood oaths against government, secret Temple initiation rituals lifted from the Freemasons, new religion whose sacred text puts Jesus in the New World and Amerindians as descendants of Jews who crossed the Bering Strait, this text translated by use of magic "seer stones," stocking a year's supply of food and water for coming apocalypse, etc. -- Mormons, not Puritans.<br /><br />PS Jews did Harvard and Yale, not Puritans. They also did "French" philosophy.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-55444153327961057812016-03-24T17:11:31.859-04:002016-03-24T17:11:31.859-04:00Puritans were pretty much insane too. After all, t...Puritans were pretty much insane too. After all, they and their descendants were heavily involved in creating bat-shit insane progressivism and SJW. There's a reason that Harvard, Yale are the way they are.<br /><br />There's a reason Puritans banned celebration of Christmas, Easter, Holidays in general. There's a reason they practically or did at times ban dancing, drinking, were leaders of Prohibition etc.<br /><br />The reason, like I said before, is that in some respects crazy tltheological splinter groups like Puritans and Amish were the 1600s version of Mormons. For Goodness's sake, they banned Christmas and replaced it with Harvard Commencement day, what more proof do you need??? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-88367186125676843152016-03-24T09:29:19.234-04:002016-03-24T09:29:19.234-04:00@PAworldandtimes, the government actually ran a st...@PAworldandtimes, the government actually ran a sting operation against Amish "illegally" selling raw milk. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1381995/Fed-cracks-Amish-selling-contraband-milk-undercover-sting.htmlMarcusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-29859793380299272952016-03-24T09:19:03.553-04:002016-03-24T09:19:03.553-04:00@ Zed, https://history.lds.org/article/pioneer-sto...@ Zed, https://history.lds.org/article/pioneer-story-the-convert-immigrants-?lang=eng<br />"As the Church spread through Europe, tens of thousands of new converts emigrated to America, leaving everything behind them for their faith and desire to be with fellow members. Of the 60,000 to 70,000 Saints who emigrated to the Salt Lake Valley in the late 1800s, more than 98 percent of the survivors were from Europe, and 75 percent were from Britain. The British converts began to emigrate with the arrival of Brigham Young to Britain in 1840. As American members faced persecution, new European members brought strength and refreshment. "Marcusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-2718849776714062712016-03-24T01:33:16.469-04:002016-03-24T01:33:16.469-04:00"Mormons do have a very high White fertility ..."Mormons do have a very high White fertility rate though"<br /><br />It's an effect of their bubble / gated community / mountain retreat way of life. Once that comes under siege, there goes their fertility. It's already declining, and you're seeing it even more with Millennial Mormons.<br /><br />If they could live in a secluded bubble forever, maybe they could maintain their high fertility rates and naive innocent psychology.<br /><br />But that's not a reliable way of life, where you need a constant bubble in order to survive. Even worse, they refuse to seal the borders in order to maintain the bubble -- they actively seek to dissolve it by missionizing and bringing back foreigners, and the rest sit by passively for fear of making invaders feel unwelcome.<br /><br />Utah is now only 80% white -- no better than the Great Lakes states. Their cultural capital of Salt Lake City is by now probably 60% white, and even their religious capital of Provo is 80-85% white, with 15% Hispanics.<br /><br />SLC is a sanctuary city for illegals, and so is the state-level government:<br /><br />"The Republican controlled Utah Legislature passed controversial bills in May 2011, which allow illegal aliens to live and work in Utah. Police also refrain from inquiring about anyone's legal status unless they are stopped or arrested for serious misdemeanors or felonies."<br /><br />http://www.ojjpac.org/sanctuary.aspagnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-50717605083882654312016-03-24T01:18:24.644-04:002016-03-24T01:18:24.644-04:00"To some extent the Amish are just the 1600s ..."To some extent the Amish are just the 1600s version of the Mormons."<br /><br />Did they invent a new religion out of whole cloth?<br /><br />Did they practice polygamy?<br /><br />Did they swear blood oaths against their host government as part of their temple initiation ritual?<br /><br />Did they missionize all over the world, and try to bring the whole world to settle their own lands?<br /><br />Just because they're a religious splinter group, doesn't make them a whackjob cult. More or less everything you said applied to the Puritans as well.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-2330855544988904652016-03-23T22:53:26.908-04:002016-03-23T22:53:26.908-04:00"I think the majority of the original Mormon ..."I think the majority of the original Mormon converts came from northern England and southern Scotland, augmented by some New Englanders and Scandis."<br /><br />David Hackett Fischer just turned over in his grave (or is he still alive?). The roots of Mormonism can be trace from Utah to the burnt over district of western New York to Puritan New England to Cromwell's army in the English Civil War. <br /><br />When Joseph Smith actually encountered folks who ancestors came from the English/Scottish border, they showed him the rope. Zednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-67147606805117572462016-03-23T20:55:45.372-04:002016-03-23T20:55:45.372-04:00Obviously the Amish are much more wholesome and le...Obviously the Amish are much more wholesome and less insane than Mormons. But on the other hand, To some extent the Amish are just the 1600s version of the Mormons. What I mean is that they had a radical Anabaptaist, batshit insane theology and were a splinter group of a splinter group of a splinter group.... They were also forcibly kicked around Mm locations in Switzerland, Southern Germany/ Baden Wurtemburg, Alsace, and eventually had to retreat to the then frontier/no man's land of West North America.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-40334158678847347182016-03-23T20:25:31.673-04:002016-03-23T20:25:31.673-04:00Mormons do have a very high White fertility rate t...Mormons do have a very high White fertility rate though, at the Chechen level in many areas. Its not a complete disaster for them, mainly "needing a tuneup" and taking the more Conservative elements of their faith to order. <br /><br />Even LDS I know here in anti-natal California have 3 children typically. Locally though this seems to have stopped with the younger 25 and under generation, <br /><br />I think its economic as much as anything since many of the guys and gals do not have college education and its doubtful the schools in the areas they are from are that badly infected by liberalism. <br /> A.B. Prospernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-35378099506961070772016-03-23T20:01:09.576-04:002016-03-23T20:01:09.576-04:00"They create rape culture because they're...<i>"They create rape culture because they're jealous of charming frat guys getting laid, they hate on the rich because they perceive the wealth as inherited and unearned."</i><br /><br />Utter misunderstanding of both those issues, and lazy characterization of liberals in general. JVnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-90669757839825274272016-03-23T19:41:31.213-04:002016-03-23T19:41:31.213-04:00For one, Liberals can't mess with the Amish th...For one, Liberals can't mess with the Amish through the normal pathways: academia, mass media, etc. Because the Amish refuse to partake in those things. So they aren't influenced and guilted into multikulti the way Minnesotans are.<br /><br />Two, Amish aren't seen as privileged so failure leftists arent' jealous of them. They work hard, sacrifice, and are generally boring. So there's not the same motivation for liberals: They create rape culture because they're jealous of charming frat guys getting laid, they hate on the rich because they perceive the wealth as inherited and unearned. Can't do that with the Amish.<br /><br />USGOV messing with groups of people is just a mechanical function of liberalism, and since there is no liberal jealousy of the Amish, USGOV does not mess with the Amish.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-47445303173197403922016-03-23T19:23:13.227-04:002016-03-23T19:23:13.227-04:00Neither are Minnesotans but they're getting So...Neither are Minnesotans but they're getting Somalied.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-77952263750015926092016-03-23T18:53:05.180-04:002016-03-23T18:53:05.180-04:00Amish not a threatAmish not a threatJust Sayin'noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-48493881439298559622016-03-23T17:52:00.691-04:002016-03-23T17:52:00.691-04:00What do you think are possible reasons why USGOV h...What do you think are possible reasons why USGOV hasn't tried to fuck with the Amish, them being so White? The two suggestions I read of is their no guns/pacifism and that they do lobby for their interests. <br /><br />PAAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-2696636927551155942016-03-23T17:49:29.559-04:002016-03-23T17:49:29.559-04:00I've heard that Mormons are heavily invested i...I've heard that Mormons are heavily invested in the private prison business, but I haven't researched this.Marcusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-58424569289603062282016-03-23T17:47:02.218-04:002016-03-23T17:47:02.218-04:00Of course they could also add heavier manufacturin...Of course they could also add heavier manufacturing -- like Michiganders making and identifying with cars, or Pittsburgh being Steel City -- but that could take longer to get going.<br /><br />Still, the more concrete and finished goods they make, whether arts-and-crafts or industrial, the more grounded and meaningful their group identity will become.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-35128392770834736842016-03-23T17:41:09.262-04:002016-03-23T17:41:09.262-04:00A more concrete step that the Mormons should make ...A more concrete step that the Mormons should make is to their economy -- take up more artisanal jobs like the Amish. It would keep them grounded.<br /><br />Right now, Utah's economy is typical for out West -- resource extraction (mining and some oil), agriculture (cultivating the raw materials, rather than making finished foodstuffs), nature-themed tourism for outdoorsy lifestyle strivers, and New Economy services.<br /><br />By not playing much of a shaping or fashioning role while at work, they wind up feeling like cogs in a machine, and that the output of their work doesn't contribute toward their individual or collective identity. It's simply to earn money in order to enjoy modern creature comforts.<br /><br />The Amish still make all sorts of finished things out of raw materials -- building houses, making furniture, sewing clothing and quilts, and making finished food items (baked goods, noodles, dairy products, etc.).<br /><br />And all of these things that they make are distinctly Amish. Everyone, at least nearby, knows about all of these things made by the Amish, value them highly, and the Amish themselves get to feel not only pride in a job well done but also in a way that contributes to their distinct collective identity.<br /><br />If the Mormons would adopt that approach, and make "Mormon furniture," "Mormon quilts," "Mormon egg noodles / Mormon cheese," and build "Mormon houses," it would give them a stronger sense of concrete identity rather than abstract values-based identity.<br /><br />From what I can tell, though, right now the Mormons look down on hard honest work, and view "salt of the earth" folks as backward / losers / victims. They're obsessed with New Economy service jobs so they can keep up with the Joneses without having to break a sweat.<br /><br />There must be a sub-group of Mormons who would resonate with the Amish approach, though. If they split off, they'd be the way forward, while the others kept the cargo cult chugging along toward demographic replacement.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-62263863923138297052016-03-23T17:22:25.979-04:002016-03-23T17:22:25.979-04:00Cosplay seems like a good analogy. The Mormon beli...Cosplay seems like a good analogy. The Mormon beliefs are so transparently ridiculous and Smith such an obvious huckster, I can't imagine the cognitive dissonance. I think the majority of the original Mormon converts came from northern England and southern Scotland, augmented by some New Englanders and Scandis.Marcusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-66835858623133854002016-03-23T17:12:53.089-04:002016-03-23T17:12:53.089-04:00HBD angle: Mormons are largely Nordic, either lite...HBD angle: Mormons are largely Nordic, either literal Nords or from the Nordic (not Celtic) regions of the UK, while the Amish are Alpine.<br /><br />As far as I can tell, Mormons have more Danes than other heavily Scandi places, so they're less faggy than Minnesotans, but not by a whole lot.<br /><br />At any rate, we do not want to idolize the Swedes, when we can look up to the Swiss.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-42199261014680811272016-03-23T17:09:05.449-04:002016-03-23T17:09:05.449-04:00While we're on the Amish, they largely abstain...While we're on the Amish, they largely abstain from politics, as voters or politicians. "Render unto Caesar..."<br /><br />My vague understanding is that when they do vote, it's only local rather than national (not wanting to impose things on the other side of the country), and practical rather than ideological (nothing about religious / family / moral values, but getting a road re-paved, having regulations that are friendlier to Amish businesses, etc.).<br /><br />Eschewing the culture war, let alone taking it into the political realm, the Amish couldn't be more opposite of the theocratic tendencies of the Mormons and "Dominionist" Christians who flock to Cruz.<br /><br />The Amish would fit in much better with Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell Jr. than the Mormons would.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-69042854925725240032016-03-23T16:56:59.705-04:002016-03-23T16:56:59.705-04:00They live in more of a cosplay 1962, or cargo-cult...They live in more of a cosplay 1962, or cargo-cult 1962. It is and always has been an intentional community, like a hippie commune. If you subscribe to certain beliefs and practice certain lifestyles, you're in; otherwise, out.<br /><br />This places importance on adherence to a checklist that is external to the community, rather than on roots within the community that just so happens to have certain beliefs and practices.<br /><br />Contrast with the Amish -- they have distinctive beliefs and practices, but that's not how they draw the boundary between Us and Them. You can't just show up to Holmes County, OH and join the Amish. And they certainly aren't going around the country or the world trying to bring others into not only their belief-and-practice system but their very land.<br /><br />The Amish emphasize organic roots within their historical and traditional community, an internal measure rather than external checklist.<br /><br />The end result is that, unlike the Mormons, the Amish are not getting over-run by foreigners (or even their fellow Americans), are not the greatest victims of fraud or other predatory behavior, do not subscribe to any kind of prosperity gospel, and do not have record levels of psychiatric drug use or plastic surgery -- while still being intensely religious, high-fertility, and keeping traditional folkways alive.<br /><br />In order to survive, the Mormons have to undo Mormonism and adopt a more Amish approach.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-43881670232963878812016-03-23T16:10:13.798-04:002016-03-23T16:10:13.798-04:00The LDS are generally a nice, decent Christian peo...The LDS are generally a nice, decent Christian people, well organized and smart. <br /><br />However they live in a kind of bubble, an eternal 1962 and are incredibly gullible. <br /><br />Also bringing less stable elements Hispanics and Tongans and Samoans into areas they control even with high White birth rates is very unwise. <br /><br />Not only will there be racial strife but if/when things go hot in the US, the Evangelicals will probably try and exterminate them as many, not all of course regard them as devil worshipers.<br /><br />Unless they can change this perception or make the right actions to prevent a US implosion they are in for a lot of troubles.<br /><br />That said there are areas where no one cares and of course the Utah belt which seems to include Utah, Idaho, Nevada and to my surprise much of Wyoming which when I lived there was thoroughly Baptist or non religious <br /><br />The areas they own plus a colony in Illinois and New York where I don't think the tolerance problem will be as big, should suffice, <br /><br />And while re: the Samoans are technically Americans so they are kind of something we have to put up with till we get smart enough to cut them loose but the real trouble is the Tongans. For some reason they are the most per capita LDS nation on Earth being 1/3 Mormon. They are a nuisance to be honest and of course the Hispanics are the big issue. <br /><br />Its going to be a scary ride.<br /><br />That said if Trump wins and if he does as he claims, he'll buy some time which is good enough <br /><br />I don't know if there is a long term fix but I'm trying to avoid the apocalyptic thinking that permeates the West where I was raised so I'll say I hope so, <br /><br /><br /><br />A.B. Prospernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-7020320812120134232016-03-23T11:42:45.347-04:002016-03-23T11:42:45.347-04:00Utah is totally cucked.Utah is totally cucked.Laguna Beach Fogeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08027025872132699493noreply@blogger.com