tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post1418163123102083484..comments2024-03-27T23:28:20.274-04:00Comments on Face to Face: Shakira became more Latin, more boring, after coming to Americaagnostichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-35889608836147743342007-04-14T19:20:00.000-04:002007-04-14T19:20:00.000-04:00I wonder if this has anything to do with my virtua...I wonder if this has anything to do with my virtual abandonment of most music genres in favor of embracing psychedelic trance and house - two genres that know that their audience is primarily white and asian, and don't try to embrace diversity. <BR/><BR/>There will probably be a double standard with rap music-it won't feel pressure to embrace diversity, even after the calls for toning down the harsh and "degrading" language after the Rutgers incident.TabooTruthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09020654652967272753noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-5750435482238593522007-04-13T21:20:00.000-04:002007-04-13T21:20:00.000-04:00I can't say I found any of these to be good, but i...I can't say I found any of these to be good, but it's certainly not as awful as what she's making these days.<BR/><BR/>For a flip-side to how Shakira turned out we can look at Go Betty Go. They aren't nearly as popular but they do manage to sing in English while identifying strongly as latinas without relegating themselves to an ethnic-musical-ghettoe. I'm normally the type to say that "pop punk" is an oxymoron (so Union 13 is my idea of an authentic East L.A hispanic punk band) but I've found what I've heard of them to be fairly enjoyable.<BR/><BR/>If I had to pick out the worst example of immigration harming good music I could think of it would be the rape and murder of Mia Zapata (of Seattle alt/punk-rock band the Gits) by one the Marielitos.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-3120052854741571762007-04-13T13:33:00.000-04:002007-04-13T13:33:00.000-04:00In this particular case, we see Shakira's earlier ...<I>In this particular case, we see Shakira's earlier good music becoming cheesier (conditioning on her music being popular). </I><BR/><BR/>It's not as if there was really any other option. She has to sing in English in order to make a significant cross-over with the American pop audience, and since her English is accented she pretty much has to play up the ethnic angle. Singing alternative rock songs with a Spanish accent would just be too jarring for the majority to garner a huge pop success. <BR/><BR/><I>Mr. Me -- you're zooming out too much, since you care for pop-ish music: it's an atomic point of </I><BR/><BR/>I think you mean I "don't care for pop-ish music" but let me know if you meant something else. Anyway, I in fact do care for pop music quite a bit, just not at all for commercial pop music. It may be any easy out to blame the markets when criticizing popular culture, but I really think it is true as far as pandering goes. Of course you have to make your music accessible if you want a broad audience, you need a common a denominator, but the current business model guarantees it has to be the lowest common denominator. Even Steve who is usually pretty pro-market recognizes in his reviews that the quality of our popular art and entertainment would probably go up if we didn't require them to constantly appease adolescent tastes. Next to Britney Spears and boy bands of a few years back, reggaeton just seems to be a new to sound awful. <BR/><BR/>Also I am not sure if the irritating quality of reggaeton is representative of the kind of music change illegal immigration brings. I think Alegerian Rai music in France has an authentic appeal deriving from the quality of the music, it doesn't seem to result from just catering to base tastes or self-validating one's sense of diversity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-60097943986406430062007-04-13T00:11:00.000-04:002007-04-13T00:11:00.000-04:00You're right. When we were saying "White," we mean...You're right. When we were saying "White," we meant where does her family come from (Southern Europe and the Eastern Mediterranean), not what color is her hair and skin.agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-59115228028273008202007-04-12T23:00:00.000-04:002007-04-12T23:00:00.000-04:00small correction. Shakira is not blanca...she is ...small correction. Shakira is not blanca...she is morena, due to her dark hair and fairly tan skin. This varies by country, but I can tell you for a fact in Columbia she would be called Morena.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-84027900104636740442007-04-11T23:10:00.000-04:002007-04-11T23:10:00.000-04:00Mr. Me -- you're zooming out too much, since you c...Mr. Me -- you're zooming out too much, since you care for pop-ish music: it's an atomic point of suckiness. But I'm zooming in and seeing a spectrum of pop music, some good and some bad. The expectation isn't that pop music will be Bach, so we have to ask "is it good for being popular music?"<BR/><BR/>So when I say that things will become less diverse, I mean that foreigners will be shoehorned into a narrow range of caricatured roles rather than be themselves. Even if you think the original range wasn't so diverse, it will become much less so afterward.<BR/><BR/>And since these roles will be mostly for show on the part of multiculti majority-culture listeners, the quality won't matter at all: you just want your friends to understand that you listen to spicy Latin music.<BR/><BR/>In this particular case, we see Shakira's earlier good music becoming cheesier (conditioning on her music being popular).agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-40754234394642729302007-04-11T15:10:00.000-04:002007-04-11T15:10:00.000-04:00I'm kind of skeptical of your analysis here, the i...I'm kind of skeptical of your analysis here, the influence of immigration and the diversity ethos on popular culture seems to only changes the parameters of pandering to the lowest common denominator, not increase the actual level of pandering (well, perhaps if it is leading to an IQ decline but that doesn't really seem to be the approach of your post). Now in addition to the old repertoire of pop song triteness, cliches about broken hearts and anthems of badassedness and the like, we have the dimension of ethnic tribal boosterism. So what? It just seems like a new way to be boring, not necessarily any more boring than what came before.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-11805811756386903842007-04-11T00:46:00.000-04:002007-04-11T00:46:00.000-04:00Exactly. Maybe that was her "exotic appeal" when s...Exactly. Maybe that was her "exotic appeal" when she was only known in Latin America -- just being White.<BR/><BR/>Her dad was a Lebanese businessman, so it's funny watching her try to slum it in the "Hips Don't Lie" video as if her family was poor. She's engaged to the son of a former Argentine president, and several of her recent songs focus on how spiritually (for lack of a better word) empty the life of a superstar is. She sure used to smile a lot more, but that could be an age thing (21 vs 30).agnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12967177967469961883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19346366.post-60032912223564999082007-04-10T22:19:00.000-04:002007-04-10T22:19:00.000-04:00Shakira is scarcely a typical Latin American. She...Shakira is scarcely a typical Latin American. She's half Lebanese Christian, one-quarter Italian, and one-quarter Catalan Spanish. She has no Indian or black ancestry.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com